Celebrating first season of Export Impact Podcast

Melanie Carter (00:00): Hi, I'm Melanie Carter, district manager here at EDC. I'm here with your host, Joe Mimran, and together we're thrilled to present the season finale of the Export Impact Podcast. Season one has been an incredible ride featuring fascinating conversations with Canadian exporters whose unique insights have offered a much needed perspective on Canada's global trade position. This episode might be a little different than what you used to. We thought it might be fun to look back on some of our highlights from Season One and why these guests or moments were so impactful. 

Before we start, I'd like to begin today's episode by acknowledging that we're recording from EDC's office in Ottawa, which is located on the traditional unceded territory of the Anishnabeg, Algonquin Nation. The peoples of Algonquin Anishnabeg Nation have lived on this territory for millennia stewarding the land, the water, and all that contributes to life in this region. We value taking this moment to deepen the appreciation of our indigenous communities wherever we are, and to remind ourselves of our shared debt to Canada's first peoples So Joe, thanks for being here. I very much look forward to our discussion to recap Season One.

Joe Mimran (01:15): Yeah, thank you very much, Melanie. What an exciting season it's been. I've got to meet so many wonderful people at EDC, many of the team members across the country and across the globe actually. So that part has been super exciting. I've learned so much and what's really been rewarding is listening to all of the entrepreneurs who have come and told their stories and their personal experiences are as important as their business experience and how the two come together in so many ways. I think when I look back on the season I think that’s really what really shines for me is that connection so maybe can get started and talk about some of the highlights.

Melanie Carter (01:59): Absolutely. Let's get right into it

Melanie Carter this one is from Shahrzad, from BBTV.

Joe Mimran (06:37): So it leads me to my question of when you first started, you started in Canada and this podcast is about exporting and giving people advice on how they should go about tackling export markets. How did you think about that? What did you do to really get out into the marketplace and start to tackle these foreign markets? What were some of the hurdles that you encountered with dealing in different countries, different languages? I think that would be really great to hear from you on that.

Shahrzad Rafati (07:08): You know, both of us are first-generation immigrants and I think part of being an immigrant, it just exposes you to new cultures, new territories. I grew up traveling to different parts of the world so building a global business was something that I was not afraid of. I always knew that I wanted to build a global business and it was just about more so how do you start, where do you start? And I think being in Canada so close to the US, US is our biggest market. And it was just more so about going after large pools of opportunity and solving a big problem for a large market and starting with one of the biggest customers. You know, we started with NBA was one of our biggest customers, then Navision(?) was one of our biggest customers. And we challenge ourselves in terms of building products and solutions that solves problems for some of the largest customers and the equator, economy, media and entertainment world.

And then from there, you have the IP owners and content creators joined us. So we try to actually really challenge ourselves in terms of building solutions that are truly solving problems for some of the largest players. Because they would challenge you in customizing solutions, making sure that you have the right set of policies and procedures and processes in place. And then we were able to scale that out of the US again going after the biggest customers in other markets with Latin America, Brazil, Mexico, and then we launched in Europe. And again, I think it would be different like I would say being in media tech and software is definitely much easier but at the same time, being in the business of content, you also have to understand that not each market is the same. 

So you wanna benefit from that global infrastructure to be able to build scalable solutions but you really need to also understand the local culture. You really need to understand the local challenges that a market is facing to make sure that your solutions are properly localized. And we didn't try to rush into localizing our solutions. We launched our solutions in the Spanish market. We were in the Spanish markets for a number of years before we actually expanded into Brazil. And then from there, we went to Portugal because there was actually specifically similarity in cultures and language in terms of localizing our software. And then we expanded very strategically and we looked at both qualitative and quantitative KPIs in understanding which market we should be tackling next. So we're not too early, we're not too late and also we can leverage our global infrastructure technology, what we build to make our solutions a lot more effective and efficient. And as a matter of fact, even though we did last year more than 400 million of top line in revenue, a lot of that, if you think about it as it relates to localization with respect to each of the international markets, we made sure that each of these markets are tackled specifically with the right set of idea, the right set of value adds. And we still got a long way to go in many more markets to get into because we're currently still in 28 countries at the time.

Joe Mimran (10:06): I guess when you're hiring solid country managers, I think that's more difficult to do than a lot of people think. To find the right people and then to train them correctly. 'cause You're, you're gonna go through churn I would think, right? You're not gonna get it right every time you go into a market. What's the biggest risk that you have when you go into one of these new markets?

Shahrzad Rafati (10:27): I would actually say it all comes down to finding the most adjacent markets and getting help from the leader of that market. For example, when we launched in Mexico, from there we went to Argentina, Columbia, or Paraguay. And then when we wanted to launch in Brazil, we actually got help from the leader of the actual Portuguese market and in Brazil and then we expanded further; the same thing in Europe. So I think it's very important to really look at these adjacent territories that have similarities in terms of audiences, languages, perhaps even in culture to really benefit from the infrastructure and the know-how and the expertise that you build to expand into adjacent markets. So for us, that has been probably the most important thing. 

The second piece of it has been really having a centralized model. And we've debated a centralized versus a de-centralized model; we tried both. And the centralized model is what basically got us to be very successful and to really gain massive scale. Like today, we reached 38 billion monthly views. And it's simply because of the fact that we actually have created a centralized ecosystem where we benefit from the expertise of folks in different markets that they can learn from each other. And then generally speaking, Joe, we have our mantra is 'quick failures.' So I can't name a big failure that we've had at BBTV because it's all about quick failures, fail quick, fail fast, fail forward. And that's our mantra. So it doesn't matter if it's a new territory that we're launching in, if it's a new vertical that we're launching, if it's a new product, we always wanna make sure that we don't fall in love with ideas of how we do things. And I highly encourage all of our team members to fail quick, fail fast, and instead of having to deal with large failures.

Joe Mimran (12:07): And so here's a perfect example of how your own personal experiences will shape your business and shape your path forward. I was really struck by the fact that she came to Canada as a 19-year-old and learned the language and then seven years later, created BBTV. So imagine you become a hard-hitting articulate executive after only seven years of being in this country. But here's the amazing thing I asked her so where did the concept come from? And it was really her personal experience and in Iran, they rationed content. Out of that came this concept of her, you know, building this incredible content business that she now oversees and she's creating and distributing content all over the world to the tune of $400 million and 5,000 content users and it goes on and on. Super, super impressive gal.

Melanie Carter (13:10): Absolutely. And then her mantra is actually pretty impactful, right? Fail fast and fail forward.

Joe Mimran (13:17): Yeah, fail fast, fail forward. I've been using it, I completely ripped her off on that. Being in the fashion business, copying is a compliment. So yeah, fail fast, fail forward. I think that's one many entrepreneurs should adopt.

Melanie Carter (13:33): Absolutely. She was mentioning that she has never experienced a big failure, which is wonderful. She always fails fast, right? So no big failures, little ones that you pivot from, that you learn from is so much better, which she was explaining actually allows her employees to love what they do. When it doesn't work out, they pivot quickly and they adapt. If you're dragging it for too long and your employees are disengaged, it actually has an impact on the overall business.

Joe Mimran (14:03): Yeah. That's so true. And again, as a female entrepreneur, I think she's a fantastic role model.

Melanie Carter (14:10): Absolutely. Absolutely. So next we are gonna hear from Tricia Pitura, from Mini Tippy.

Joe Mimran (14:17): When you think about the designs that you currently are creating, is there sort of a historical aspect to them? Where do you get your inspiration from and how did you come to that? Because it sounds like you almost had a self-discovery journey as well as a business journey.

Tricia Pitura (14:37): Yeah and that's what I am grateful for Mini Tippy. And now like if you think about my voice, like I even just found my voice or who I am and who I'm more confident telling people I'm indigenous just because of how with my grandmother, our culture was taken away and I wasn't proud of who I was. And so now I'm just finding my voice and I'm hoping to help other people connect or reconnect and learn. And I get emotional a little bit when I talk about that because I've come a long way just to be talking to you about it out loud. But I get inspired to learn, I wanna learn more. I was exposed to it but never really taught the meaning behind it of how I can connect and how other people can connect to it. Because I believe right now Canada is thirsty to learn and everybody really wants to support indigenous business or just understand the culture and where we all came from and where we can all like reconnect together.

So I feel like when I collaborate with the artists, we provide the platform for them to also express themselves and pass down those teachings that they were taught from their elders or their community. And so when they have a designer, when we have an inspiration for a design and collaboration, sometimes our artists take a really traditional art form such as birch bark biting or traditional quilt making. And that's usually done one piece at a time; that takes a lot of time and a lot of craftsmanship and just the amount of work and beauty that goes into that. And what we do is kind of modernize it in a sense that we take those teachings and those traditional art forms and we create it into a textile where it makes it accessible for everyone to learn a little bit about the culture, connect with it, and each one of those designs have a story to tell.

And that's what I think that a lot of our feedback from our customers, non-indigenous and indigenous, is that they have so much connection when they receive that artist card in their box, when they receive our product and it has the artist who they are, what nation they're from, what they do as an artist, but also what that blanket means and why that artist chose to do that design. So I feel people connect to our product as part of an experience and we create a conversation where people can learn and talk about it and celebrate the culture and wear it proudly for themselves or whether they're gifting it. Gift-giving is really strong and indigenous culture too, and it has lots of meaning and significance and impact. So I feel that when people receive our products, they're grateful of what they received, but also that they can wear proudly, like I said, but also indigenize fashion and make it part of society as a norm. 

Melanie Carter 17:18 So Joe, what were the takeaways from your conversation with Tricia?

Joe Mimran (17:21): Well that was a really emotionally charged moment there and she really buried her soul. And this whole journey of self-awareness and recognition as an indigenous entrepreneur, I think was exactly what this podcast is about. Hearing these wonderful stories from entrepreneurs and again, how their personal experiences get intertwined with their business experiences and how it really does lead to, I would say, success in many cases. And because they're digging deep, they're not just putting out a product, they're doing more than that. And it's a fascinating story in the sense that I didn't know about birch bark biting and how she brought that art form into her products. And again, traditional craftsmanship and bringing that to the market and showing how she's developing an international business just through, you know, again, digging deep and I really enjoyed chatting with Tricia. That was a great moment.

Melanie Carter (18:23): I agree. It just goes to show that when you bring your whole self to the world, great success can come out of it pretty spectacular. So next up is a clip from 18:36name] from 18:37name].

Joe Mimran (18:37): It's a wonderful vision and you speak of it in an evangelistic way, which is also an important part of leading a team and being an entrepreneur because you specialize in a technology that regenerates all this post-consumer and post-industrial plastics into these new materials. Well, it's not really a new material, it's reusing the material. Perhaps you can also share with us some examples of the customer service that you provide and how you meet some of the key demands from your customers. 

Joslyn (19:11): Well sure. I mean we're just starting now to get our product in the market. So it's essentially the product was the core of our interest for the past years. Now, we're really starting to develop this after-market business. But right now, essentially clients come to us when they have this need for what I call recycled styrene. It's this one chemical, it's a commodity chemical. But now we're able with our process to make that identical chemical identical virgin with waste. And so you have lower carbon footprint. So we have a carbon footprint impact. So people come to us and say, well we'd like to offset our virgin styrene with renewable styrene, low carbon footprint, et cetera, et cetera. And so they come to us, they send us their material, we test it, okay, technically it works. Here's the deal. We sell them the equipment, we sell them the license, they operate it. And eventually of course there's some aftermarket like data analysis and we can help them with the parts and training and everything like that. 

But I think in the end what they have as a service is that they've been able to reduce our carbon footprint and they've been able to meet their recycle content targets. And this is what drives the economics because otherwise they would have to pay a tax for carbon or they would have to pay a tax if they haven't met the recycled content. And most of them, they would lose this right to plea. If you do not comply with the regulation but your competitors do, then you lose the right to plea in this market. But that's kind of the value proposition in a nutshell and that's why people come to us and that's what we offer.

Melanie Carter (20:41): I learned so much from just lay on renewable energy and its possibilities. What was memorable for you during that interview?

Joe Mimran (20:48): Well what I found interesting was this clean tech put by Canada and how Canada is leading in so many areas and the fact that it is being supported. This was not an overnight success, this is a process that took quite some time to develop and then to be able to export that technology essentially, which is what that is, and to be able to do it with a name brand like Michelin in France. Again, I think it was just a wonderful success story. And it was not easy, you know, when Joslyn was talking about his journey, it was not an easy journey to get to those markets. And then again, how to be persistent and how to break through into a market and how you do that, how you develop your relationships and how again, if you know how to use EDC, they can make these inroads for you. They can help you, they can help you make the connections that you need. They connect you with the government offices, they connect you with suppliers, they connect you with different business people in the community and they become a partner in a way that when you're exporting and taking that level of risk, that's the kind of support you really can use. And I think I'm very excited to see the circular economy continue to become a very important part of the mandate that EDC and the government is pursuing.

Melanie Carter (22:21): Indeed. We are making great successes out of Canada in terms of circular economy. That said, you know, there's a lot of work to be done in that area, right? And Joslyn mentioned it, right? They are going out there with a certain mandate, they have the subjective and then they're realizing that there are all sorts of other problems that need to be solved for them to be able to put out their product and market, which was quite fascinating, right? It's almost created another opportunity for a new business opportunity, right?

Joe Mimran (22:49): Yeah, it's great. And you know, there are so many unsung heroes here in Canada when it comes to entrepreneurship. So many other stories that, you know, I've had the opportunity to meet with so many CEOs and founders and I don't think their stories get told enough. I think they're an inspiration for entrepreneurs and we should be yelling at the top of the mountain of, you know, as to how successful many of them are and what they're doing because It is inspirational.

Melanie Carter (23:21): Absolutely. So it sounds like there are many more episodes to be made for this podcast because certainly there are a lot of entrepreneurs that could have a voice here, that's for sure. But this interview, as I said, I learned tons from it and it was charged with great content. So much so that we actually have a second clip from Joslyn and Power Wave.

Joe Mimran (23:38): And exporting is such a challenge for so many companies. There are new laws and there are all kinds of things that come about when you go into a new country. But just talk us through some of the biggest hurdles and challenges that you've had as you've been exporting. 

Joslyn (23:56): Well, for sure the culture is always a big challenge. But we are lucky enough that we speak French here, so we're able to communicate very easily, let's say with our French counterparts than with other countries. However, the culture is different for sure, but I think if the language barrier is at least eliminated, it helps a lot. But we did face that in some Asian countries for sure. So not only on the language barrier side, but also on the way they do business, the way they say things, and the way they don't save things. It took us some time to understand that essentially our client was telling us something that we didn't quite understand. So there's one thing we learned where we now partner with local agents, it helps us in how we develop the business and how we establish the business strategy. 

I think the culture is certainly one thing that was very difficult and we engaged with a lot of companies and it didn't go through mainly because we were not able to understand each of them very well. So it's quite sad that you have a fantastic company in front of you and then it's just impossible to understand. So we hired people who speak the local language, and we've learned how to make things happen. These clients come back to us now. But for sure I think the culture is certainly something that we underestimate. We think, you know, we speak English, we're North American, we're not used to that but when you speak with different European countries and all do business differently, it may create some tensions sometimes.

Melanie Carter (25:16): Joslyn makes a very valuable point, right?

Joe Mimran (25:19): Yeah, this cultural issue is huge and understanding it and going into the market, understanding the various cultures, whether you're in Japan, whether you're in Korea, whether you're in China, whether you're in the US even they speak the same language but even there, there are some cultural differences that you need to be aware of. Much more subtle of course in the US but by the same token, if you don't get a line on what that is and the importance of simple things like a face-to-face meeting, where in some cultures that is critically important, making that connection and then having interpreters that you can trust and that do the right job for you as you go into these markets. And I remember when I was opening my stores in Japan, we had people on staff that actually learned the language in order for us to be able to communicate better. And that took time. You know, that was a 12-month process, but we had people on staff that would learn the language, learn the customs, and it went a long way. You know, we were able to penetrate that market very well. That one point really resonates with me having done business around the world.

Melanie Carter (26:30): Without putting that effort there is an opportunity or a risk to lose business, lose contracts altogether. Definitely something that we hear a lot here at EDC is that important of finding partners in market and working with local agents? As to your point, it goes a long way. Next is Jake Carl from Midday Squares.

Joe Mimran (26:53): Yeah, I think you've got the right spirit for it and I love the story of seeing an entrepreneur and that's what I learned when I was on Dragons Den was I saw people who had real passion for what they were doing. And I think passion is at the heart of it. And that's what I get from you. So when you were first launching the business, what did you do to raise capital?

Jake Carl (27:14): So my first two businesses, I didn't raise any money. I used my own personal money. Midday Squares, the three of us used everything we had in our bank account. So my sister, my brother-in-Law and I, my partners, we each put $150,000 in to get product market fit. So that took us about a year in that we could use that capital to show that we could sell chocolate bars. We had a million-dollar runway, we decided to raise some money. And here's why it worked out well for us is because we decided to build out loud, our marketing approach was to show everything on social media. So I mean on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on TikTok, actually TikTok wasn't existent at the time, at least in Canada. And we use those platforms to show customers, potential investors, potential retailers, who we were and what we do and the hard work that we put into the business and the true authenticity of who we are as individuals.

And what that did was it actually attracted investors to reach out and be like, Hey, what is this company? You guys are doing something different. Your product is tasty. I could buy your product, I could try it. But now your storytelling is really like authentic. You are showing the whole behind the curtains of the business. And that's what happened. Boulder Food Group out in Colorado reached out to us and they said, Hey, we love your product, we tried it, you got a really cool brand, the story is capturing, can we come visit you in Montreal? And I couldn't believe it. And basically, how they did that was they wrote a handwritten letter and sent a massive box with all their portfolio branded products and said, do you mind if we come visit you guys? And immediately we were so excited that they came in and they became our first investor and they continued to invest in us over time. But I think the secret was we had product market fit so I think that's table steaks. But I think the second thing is that we built out loud so we were able to get the attention of the investor before even reaching out to the investor. And I think that allowed us to have a little bit of a playing field more than other brands did.

Joe Mimran (28:59): Yeah. And I think it's more pull than push even though you were pushing very hard, like you said from an investor standpoint. They came to you and that's always a better position to be in. And this first investor obviously had a leap in faith in yourself.

Melanie Carter (29:16): Loved the energy from...

Joe Mimran (29:18): Oh my god, Jake. Jake is so energetic and he actually had come to my office, he introduced himself before I did a podcast with him. I didn't know him. He just cold-called me one day and said, you know, I'm in Toronto, I'd love to meet you. And that really sums Jacob up. He has no fear. He is willing to be in front of the camera 24/7. He even proposed to his wife-to-be on camera. And I think to be that brave and to show your entire business life to the public and to be there with the public on a day-by-day basis, that's a lot of energy, man, and you've gotta have courage. I gotta hand it to them. I think he's building an amazing business and I know his goal is to hit $100 million dollars in revenue. He talked about it on the podcast and I'm sure he will get there

Melanie Carter (30:16): Absolutely with that energy and the confidence that he does have indeed. And I loved the little secrets that he left for us, right? The secret is building out loud. I loved the way that he positioned it. Great piece of advice for other entrepreneurs out there.

Joe Mimran (30:34): Absolutely.

Melanie Carter (30:35): And then we have Nita Tandon from Dalchini.

Joe Mimran (30:41): I call it sometimes giving tough love, right? Because you do sometimes one of the criticisms is they sometimes are blind to the fact that they are pursuing a dream that perhaps there is no market for. And they're so blinded by their own innovation or their own idea that they forget that they've really gotta serve the market or else they won't be successful. And the other thing is just raising capital. Entrepreneurs spent so much of their time just trying to raise capital, which I think you were lucky that you were able to get the capital from the bank initially.

Nita Tandon (31:18): They want to help, but they don't know how to help. I mean, I'll give you an example, A very specific example was during the pandemic, the borders were closed for personal travel, the borders were never closed for business. And so, I have a satellite office and I'm very close to a border and a satellite office there. And I was doing a deal with Good Morning America and some things needed to get signed across the border and I needed to go over. I went to the border and I said, this is what I'm doing. And they said, no, it's not for that kind of a business. Like this is for like big business only. And I said, well, no, I am. And I had called ahead of time and asked them specifically, what do I need? And I'm also very cognizant that when I speak I sound white and I do think there's a difference when I suddenly get to the border and I'm not what they're expecting. And they told me that I wasn't allowed to go across the border. They said it's not for my type of business. And so that preconceived notion was I just didn't look like a business person to them. So I was escorted back to Canada and even though I was doing a deal and I said, here, I can show you some emails. And they said we don't wanna see them. They wouldn't even look at my registration because That person I'd spoken to on the phone said, make sure you bring this blah blah, blah. I don't take that lightly. 

So I come back and of course my husband's saying, don't, they've got a lot of power. Like do you really wanna go down that road and just do business in Canada? And I thought, no, because then I'm not changing it for the next generation. There's gonna be women that come after me and we're always gonna be with the same set status quo. And so I came back, I sat and thought about it and I called them up. I spoke to the same person I'd spoken to before and I told them exactly what happened. I told them the time that I was there, I told him who I spoke to, what happened, everything. And he apologized and he said, this country is absolutely open to people like you. I'd like you to consider coming back. And so it's how you change the system. 

I will say the same thing happened when I came back to Canada. Now the Canadian said to me, you're not business. The only people that can come through are truckers. And I thought, well, like we need to change the definition of trade. We need to change the definition of business and we need to change the view of what business looks like. Because if you still Google it today, the images that come up is very much male in a blue business suit with a white shirt; that's not what I am. So it doesn't mean that I'm not business, it means that we need to change that definition.

Melanie Carter (33:45): Her comments are so powerful.

Joe Mimran (33:47): Yeah, it was an interesting interview podcast in the sense that this was much more about her personal take on being a woman of color and in business and as opposed to the business itself and the challenges of the business itself, I think it took on a whole different direction. And she was very emotional. Again, a very emotional point of view here. And trying to do something to get that message out and to change perception, which I think is again, supercritical. I think it's great that she's so vocal about it and that she's really making an impact in doing that. We talk about it being the Export Impact podcast. And I think she extended that from export impact to social impact as well. And I think that's something that we have to give, need a lot of credit for.

Melanie Carter (34:42): Completely agree. The difficulties and the barriers that she faced, right? Other entrepreneurs are facing in the same way. And so we're gonna use words that I've heard before in our conversation, which are persistence or determination. And so she's certainly being a role model, which is great to hear in her session for sure. A couple of words that come to mind for me are passion and authenticity. Those two words came out in multiple ways through the conversations. So I have a couple of takeaways after hearing all of the clips and the highlights, A few words that come to mind and maybe you can tell me if you agree or disagree or if you have others that come to mind as well. So the first are passion and authenticity.

Joe Mimran (35:25): Yes. And that passion is something that I have noticed drives most entrepreneurs. You've got to have it, you've gotta have the ability to take on risk. I think that's a very big component. And when you have that passion, the risk becomes easier to take on because you're so passionate about it that you're willing to take the risk. So I think they go hand in hand. And that's what I love about meeting all of these great founders and CEOs of these businesses is that they all have these common elements and it shines through in the way that they build their businesses and the way they communicate. And that communication also bleeds into the organization because when you can be very clear and articulate about the direction that you want to take the business in, then people can follow that much easier and you get your business disciples and you need them. They've gotta be there on the front lines with you when you have all of these challenges that you will inevitably run into as an entrepreneur.

Melanie Carter (36:33): The other ones I heard through the conversations are the importance of product market fit and understanding markets.

Joe Mimran (36:42): There's the left side, right side of the brain, you know, some people refer to the sort of the creative side versus the analytical side. And the analytical side really is very important. You cannot just go with passion. If the idea is an idea that the market doesn't require or that the market doesn't want, that the market doesn't need, then you have to be very honest about it. And I do think you have to have at least the analytical skills and the honesty. I talked about this tough love. I get many people who come to me with ideas and they're very passionate about it, but sometimes you do have to deliver that tough love. So they don't spend five, 10 years on a concept that really the market doesn't want. So I think again, a really good point you raised, Melanie, in that it better be something that is market-correct, market-right, market needed.

Melanie Carter (37:38): Absolutely as passionate as you might be, it won't fix the issue if there's not a fit for your product. So we've come to the end of our highlights. So Joe, thanks for the discussion and for the opportunity to chat about this season's highlights. And very importantly, thank you for having been a magnificent host this season. Your great questions, your calm approach, and great listening skills allowed for guests to be comfortable to generously share their stories and their journeys with us, right? I'm sure that our audience will have acquired a number of advice that they'll be able to bring to their own adventures.

Joe Mimran (38:14): Well, thank you, Melanie. It's been a real journey for me as well. I always love to hear about entrepreneur stories, trials, tribulation, successes, and I get inspired by it. And as an entrepreneur and as seeing so many entrepreneurs through my personal experiences, it's interesting to note that I never get tired of hearing about great stories and EDC, the role that EDC has played in helping those stories come to light and helping entrepreneurs take those risks and being there for them and being there not just for the successful entrepreneurs, but also for the groups that sometimes don't have ready access to capital. And I think the ability to go to an EDC and to get the support and backing, whether you're indigenous or whether you are a marginalized group, to know that there's somebody in your corner is so helpful and really will encourage I think more growth and more excitement in the Canadian marketplace. And so I thank EDC and I thank you today and it's been a real pleasure.

Melanie Carter (39:32): Absolutely. Same here. So thanks everyone for joining us today on the Export Impact Podcast. If you enjoy today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe, rate, and leave us a review on your favorite streaming platform. Until next time.