#meta 2024-06-26

2024-06-26 UTC
[0x3b0b], nertzy, jeremycherfas and lazcorp joined the channel
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theadhocracy.co.uk edited /Obsidian (+127) "Quartz SSG" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-178) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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aaronpk webring << https://gusbus.space/smallweb-subway/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://gusbus.space/smallweb-subway/" to the "See Also" section of /webring https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=95944&oldid=95784
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/indieauth to https://indieauth.net
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Loqi [github] Successfully deployed indieweb/indieauth to https://indieauth.net
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Out of interest, where do these updates appear? Was thinking https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org but that’s showing the previous content. Is there a release process to update that spec with any changes and cut a new version?
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] http://indieauth.net is a high-level site *about* IndieAuth — it's not the specification
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] It’s confusing, as the GitHub repo (https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth) links to https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org, the updates in the repo show changes to the specification text… and none of the changes are publicly visible, as far as I can tell. Am a bit confused what’s changing, and where!
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Loqi [preview] [indieweb] indieauth: IndieAuth Specification
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[tantek] I can see how it's confusing, however the very first link in that README in the GitHub repo (https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth is to http://indieauth.net:
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[tantek] > This repository is for the IndieAuth specification, as well as related documentation that lives at http://indieauth.net.
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Loqi [preview] [indieweb] indieauth: IndieAuth Specification
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[tantek] re: "the updates in the repo show changes to the specification text" <-- that's not what I see, the "source" directory (for indieauth net) says "revise summary, change mention of public clients", wheraes the "spec" directory shows no changes for 2 years
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[tantek] I see the confusion between the README vs the "About" in the right column
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[tantek] maybe dropping it from the About would help
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] take a look: https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/pull/139
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /.bit (+332) "+ me 🥲" (view diff)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] I’ll try and clarify my question:
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] • `public/index.php` updates the http://IndieAuth.net homepage.
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] • `public/source/index.php` updates the spec.
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] • This recent commit updates the spec: https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/commit/de0feda59bf39d6ffb8ad053146b2cd074e4cecc
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] • Where do these spec updates appear, as they don’t appear on this page: https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org
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[tantek] ^ aaronpk, may need your help to disentangle this
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gRegor I don't think the spec page auto deploys
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[tantek] yeah that would make sense to have a more manual approval/double-checking of changes step
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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Loqi "Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" call ended https://events.indieweb.org/2024/06/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-7EeVR8ATRtpk
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capjamesg[d] What is notation?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "notation" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "notation is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg[d] !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2024/06/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-7EeVR8ATRtpk events/2024-06-26-hwc-europe
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-06-26-hwc-europe. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-06-26-hwc-europe (+4886) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-06-26-hwc-europe (-215) "clean up formatting" (view diff)
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[tantek] 👀
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[tantek] what's the context for "notation" capjamesg[d]?
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I can't really remember what got me started, but this story intrigues me (deep link): https://github.com/kai-qu/notation?tab=readme-ov-file#relatively-prime-the-unexpected-by-colin-wright
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capjamesg[d] "We discovered that if we arranged those tricks in just the right way, they fell into a pattern. There was an underlying, unsuspected structure. As long as you had the courage to leave gaps. And this goes back to things like the Periodic Table, when Mendeley was writing down all the elements"...
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Loqi [preview] [kai-qu] notation: Collection of quotes on notation design & how it affects thought.
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capjamesg[d] It got me thinking about notation as a tool for thought.
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capjamesg[d] Indeed, HTML is a great example of this.
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[tantek] 👀
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capjamesg[d] The declarations in HTML (nav, section, header, body) feel relatively natural after learning what they do and having a bit of context on layout design.
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artlung.com edited /events/2024-06-26-hwc-europe (+4) "/* Notes: rel-me link */" (view diff)
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] there's a more precise word for what you're talking about (than notation), gimme a minute to remember it
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capjamesg[d] Oooh!
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capjamesg[d] is curious!
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[qubyte] Notation as a tool is very prevalent in the sciences. For example, Dirac notation hides very ugly integrals and is far easier to reason about. There’s an entire branch of maths about it.
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[qubyte] Though the name escapes me…
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capjamesg[d] On reflection, I have struggled to connect with notation.
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capjamesg[d] I can't read sheet music, nor was I particularly interested in learning.
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capjamesg[d] But to think of it as a way to discover new things, is interesting.
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[tantek] similarly, things like H2O (with subscript 2) as chemical formulas
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] in case you didn't find this rabbithole before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notation_system - enjoy 🙂
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[Joe_Crawford] If I'm following what you're talking about, James, then I feel compelled to mention the book _Gödel, Escher, Bach_ which is a great book I've not looked at in a long time but I've reread a few times long ago. I don't think I have a copy anymore. Anyway, gets into organizing knowledge and communicating that knowledge. It feels adjacent anyway. Apologies if it takes you off the path you and Tantek are thinking of.
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] I found GEB more abstract than useful but to each their own!
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[Joe_Crawford] That's a fair critique - it fits a lot of how my brain works - it was particularly useful to me when the web was new to me, as each new idea would drive me to look up new other concepts - in linguistics, library science, mathematics.
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capjamesg[d] Interestingly, I have found it easier to understand mathematics when in code than in notation.
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capjamesg[d] I don't know much mathematical notation and I know how to code -- that cannot be understated.
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capjamesg[d] With that said, it feels like I can reason with a concept and connect it to something I understand -- like the context of a broader problem in text analysis -- more easily in code.
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[Joe_Crawford] There's math notation in this: https://artlung.com/blog/2020/08/10/the-problem/
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[tantek] code notation is essentially 1-dimensional, linear, which makes it simpler to parse. mathematics notation is 2-dimensional which makes it harder to "parse" like where do you start. so that makes sense capjamesg[d]
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[tantek] the only exception is languages that depend on space characters for semantics like line breaks, like python which is like 1.5d, not quite fully 2-dimensional
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[tantek] btw in sharing that Wikipeda page of notation systems, I noticed one was missing, Rubik's cube moves notation, so I went and found it, fixed a redirect, and add a new notation system to the page of notation systems!
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[Joe_Crawford] I did the same for Feynman diagrams which remain my favorite (though possibly the least practical to me personally)
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[Joe_Crawford] They were already there
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[tantek] it's quite satisfying to find a very fixable "hole" like that in Wikipedia and be able to immediately edit save to fix it. No Git(hub) "create a fork" BS, no "Create a patch / pull request" ceremony, no prompted TWO text fields to provide BOTH a summary and a description of the edit, no stupid buttons that say "Merge" or "Squash & Merge" (why?!? so much plumbing BS that the authoring use-case doesn't care about), no "Delete fork" ceremonial
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[tantek] cleanup BS either
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[tantek] githubceremony-- gitceremony--
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Loqi githubceremony has -1 karma over the last year
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Loqi gitceremony has -1 karma over the last year
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[Joe_Crawford] tantek++ 💯
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Loqi tantek has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (104 in all channels)
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[tantek] also blows me away that there are developers (most?) who feel so comfortable with the ceremonial steps of Git(Hub) but are afraid to edit Wikipedia. like wat
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[Joe_Crawford] The Notation page doesn't mention UML diagramming. Though the only thing in UML I find distinct enough to really "count" as a new kind of notation are sequence diagrams.
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] fixed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notation_system#Computing
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[Joe_Crawford] Legit.
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] actually it belonged in a different higher level section, Graphical Notations. Moved to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notation_system#Science
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loqi.me created /handshake (+269) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /handshake (+37) "[tantek] added "{{emojicon|🤝}}" to "See Also"" (view diff)