Talk:Assassination of Talaat Pasha

Move request

To "assassination of Talaat Pasha", to match the biography article of Talaat Pasha. Pinging @Buidhe: as major contributor to the article. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 23:45, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Oppose There are different ways of spelling the name, and the single "a" version has become more common in English language print sources, per NGRAMS[1] (t · c) buidhe 00:32, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

understandable and good reasoning, since the name is more common I've withdrawn my request. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 07:25, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

@Buidhe: If you are right, you should start an RM at Talaat Pasha. The titles should not use different spellings. Srnec (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Use of "coroner"

In the section Other testimony on the genocide, the term "coroner" is used. Is that an accurate translation of the position of the German official? "Coroner" is a specifically English law term, which has been picked up in Commonwealth countries and the US which have been influenced by English law. Is it appropriate to use that term when describing a German official, who may have different duties and powers than the English officer? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, Hi, thanks for your copyedits to the article. The cited source (Ihrig) says "coroner". The English translation of the transcript (a somewhat unofficial source) says he is Dr. Schmulinsky, a "Medical Advisor".[2] The original German source says "Zeuge Geheimer Sanitätsrat Dr. Schmulinsky aus Charlottenburg"[3] (t · c) buidhe 03:03, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

I have no German, so can't help with the translation, but I do know a German lawyer. I'll pass an inquiry on to him. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:07, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Copied some text

I know absolutely nothing about this subject but ended up with the Soghomon Tehlirian article on my watchlist due to unreverted vandalism. After the recent spate of bizarre IP edits there trying to note his first assassination, I've gone and copied text from this article to there, keeping the latter page's referencing style (I really don't care which ref style Tehlirian's page uses; I was just copying accepted practice). Any help (or other watchers) there would be appreciated. Graham87 10:14, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 10 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 20:42, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

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Assassination of Talat Pasha → Assassination of Talaat Pasha – Per WP:CONSUB, the name of the pasha should match the title of his article in this sub-article's title. This move has been mooted before here and here, but the article creator objects. I do not have an opinion on which spelling is best, only that article and sub-article ought to match. Srnec (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 21:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I agree that by WP:CONSUB there should be consistency between the titles. I haven't seen anything persuasive to say which one it should be though. In Justifying Genocide, Stefan Ihrig uses Talât Pasha. That's only one example though, as it's the only relevant book I have on hand. In the previous discussions, it was pointed out that the contemporary split is essentially even between Talat and Talaat. I'd trust buidhe's judgement here as she has demonstrated a lot more familiarity with the literature. Tkbrett (✉) 19:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support move per nom. The spelling was shortly discussed recently at Talk:Talaat Pasha#Most common name for Talaat Pasha in modern sources? The general trend is that the two spellings Talat and Talaat are more or less equally split. However, the 2018 2018 biography by Hans-Lukas Kieser will probably help tip the scales towards Talaat. --T*U (talk) 09:06, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support - My understanding is that while recent English sources may be split between Talat and Talaat, not only will the recent biography tip the scales, but all of the contemporary English sources (from the times the Ottoman Empire still existed and in the early days of the Turkish Republic) unanimously used "Talaat", so that should make Talaat definitive. WhisperToMe (talk) 12:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possibly wrong link target in section "Assassination"

The pistol with which Pasha was shot is named a 9×19mm Parabellum pistol in section "Assassination". The brackets on the right from the link are most likely set at the wrong position, which makes the wikilink go to a wrong article. If the weapon used was indeed a Parabellum pistol with caliber 9 mm, which is highly likely, the complete link text should be [[Luger pistol|Parabellum pistol]] with [[9×19mm Parabellum|cal. 9 mm]]. An alternative would be [[Luger pistol|Parabellum pistol cal. 9 mm]]. [This post was strongly edited compared to the first version to make it more understandable]. Pittigrilli (talk) 22:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Pittigrilli, I think you are right. One of the sources said the weapon was a "9 mm Parabellum" and another said it was a Luger pistol, if I'm remembering correctly. I went and changed the article as suggested. (t · c) buidhe 08:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Talaat or Talat

@Buidhe: Both styles seem to be correct, but it should be consistent throughout the article, especially if its is going to be TFA at some pint. Which are we using? -Indy beetle (talk) 17:16, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

It should be Talaat. Will fix (t · c) buidhe 19:03, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Talat Pasha is a Turk. Therefore, his name should be written in Turkish. And in Turkish, two vowels almost never time come together. There is absolutely no name in Turkish as Talaat. Trkyldrm99 (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Tehlirian a martyr

See my question here. Why would Armenians consider Tehlirian a martyr? I understand why they would consider him a hero, and why Turks would consider Talaat a hero and a martyr, but on what basis would Tehlirian be considered a martyr? 49.198.51.54 (talk) 06:43, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure how one would determine what a whole nation considers, but anyway it makes sense to me to call Tehlirian a martyr or at least some one who is ready to become a martyr, since there were no guarantees that he wouldn't end up in jail or get punished by death. So he took the risk. Also I could imagine that during his whole life he had to be cautios about possible revenge. Hope, I could explain to you, why on could consider Tehlirian a martyr. 2A02:3035:4:C949:E08D:594C:3B8A:D324 (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Differential coverage

This article is titled "Assassination of Talaat Pasha", but including the intro and background, the assassination itself occupies less than one-third of the length of the article. Even with Talaat's funeral included, it stretches to reach the 1/3 mark. The trial of the assassin, by contrast, is well over half of the article's length—nearly all of the remainder. Either the assassination should receive more coverage, or the article should be renamed to reflect its dominant topic. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:17, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Talat Pasha's real name

Talat Pasha is a Turk. Therefore, his name should be written in Turkish. And in Turkish, two vowels almost never time come together. There is absolutely no name in Turkish as Talaat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trkyldrm99 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 26 April 2022 (UTC)