Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Debresser
No action. AGK ■ 18:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Debresser
Having previously been cautioned regarding civility, and having been topic banned for the exact offense of personilizing disputes and making attacks, and having repeatedly made unfounded AE complaints regarding others supposed incivility, Debresser continues to make outright personal attacks and uncivil claims in forums where they are wholly inappropriate. By Debresser's own standards he should be banned from the topic area as a toxic presence who repeatedly lowers the level of civility by making uncalled for personal attacks on other editors.
Discussion concerning DebresserStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Debresser
In general, I can't deny that I have a suspicion this was posted in revenge for Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Nableezy above, and that should definitely backfire to Nableezy. @Nableezy "Debresser was previously warned, indeed topic-banned, for precisely this behavior, for personalizing disputes and battleground behavior, and he has continued unabated since returning." The same can be said about you! And in my report above I did precisely that. The only difference between the two of us is, that I try to make good edits, firmly based in Wikipedia policies and guidelines, explaining them as I go, while you have stated many times over the last few days, that you couldn't care less about other editors' opinions. And your language reflects your contempt for other editors and the consensus process laying at the basis of this project in general. See the evidence collected by the other editors commenting here. QED. Debresser (talk) 17:12, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by IcewhizIn regards to Debresser's assertions on Nableezy's editing practices, please see the following evidence from the last few days with Nableezy's comments:
All this while edit warring in - 15:12, 9 October 2018, 23:36, 3 October 2018, 15:11, 9 October 2018 - content that has been disputed on BLP grounds, with an open RfC, and an interim editor consensus at BLP/n that either rejects inclusion or is no consensus - BLP content sourced to a description of a documentary that Al Jazeera decided not to publish, and segments of which were leaked (causing coverage of the leak and AJ's choice not to publish this).Icewhiz (talk) 06:50, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by BellezzasoloJust a short one, but Special:Diff/862197737 by Nableezy comes across as a very unsavoury approach. There's no attempt at compromise, and it comes across as GAMEey. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 11:36, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by CoretheappleI was summoned by RfC bot to the discussion cited above by Icewhiz, and in some years as an editor I have rarely seen such tendentious editing behavior, and not by Debresser. I'm the target of the incivility cited by Icewhiz above. I have no idea who Debresser is and I don't generally edit in this subject area. But I do know that the user who commenced this case is threatening to bring an RfC at Talk:Canary_Mission [1] having failed to "win" on the identical issue in an RfC at Talk:Adam Milstein [2] that's been grinding along for a month, and two noticeboard discussions, both commenced by Nableezy [3][4], that are now winding down without consensus. All three repetitive discussions concern whether to add contentious, disputed material concerning Milstein. Rather than kick the can down the road I strongly recommend a boomerang. Coretheapple (talk) 16:47, 11 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sir JosephTo me this seems like it shoul be a tit for tat filing and that's something we don't need in this area. Statement by TritomexI didnt want to participate in previous discussion regarding the report against Nableezy, but it was clear that many of his comments and reverts went beyond the borders of objectiveness. Unwillingness to reach consensus combined with strong POV and tit for tat attacks could be very problematic in sensitive areas. I also had a lot of disagreements with Debresser, especially few years ago when I was more active here. In overall conclusion I support WP:BOOMERANG in this case.Tritomex (talk) 05:17, 12 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Debresser
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Markbassett
No violation. Filer warned for meritless AE requests. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:39, 12 October 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Markbassett
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Markbassett#1rr_violation_and_Self-revert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Markbassett#1rr_violation_and_Self-revert Discussion concerning MarkbassettStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by MarkbassettBringing it to this level over placement of the exact same words at spot A vs B seems making a mountain out of a molehill. I think I'll mention I started a TALK for resolving this, and suggest we just let that run a bit in case the concern becomes moot. User:Galobtter posted this article is not subject to 1RR in TALK a 12:57 10 October, and User:ContentEditman repeated the 00:27, 10 October revert on 16:50 10 October, so it is back to the lower position and in TALK. Otherwise I'll point to what I previously put to his TALK page "- Thank you for your mention of the 1RR limit, and I felt I should offer you the same caution, though both of us have only done one revert here so are not actually in violation. Particularly note you have a history of prior reverts of various editors, prior 1RR claims (that may be taken as WP:THREATEN), and incorrectly claimed consensus before (which may be taken as WP:DISRUPT disruptive editing). How about lets just see what others say about where it goes and let them decide. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 03:29, 10 October 2018 (UTC)" I will also offer from todays article TALK "I'm not aware of a previous TALK similar to this other than the 29 September Worst polling ever sentence of User:Obsidri, from you reverting it back into lead and issues of editing into LEAD without article content, plus side-noted it as having issues of factually incorrect and poor cite, and then question of WEIGHT. I agreed and snipped it out of lead and you then reverted it back in on 30 September, Obsidri removed it again and you then put it down lower. I only noticed it this week as looking misplaced and shifted it up a section without alteration. I'd tend to regard the earlier one as a LEAD or Delete discussion, but can see if you view it as an ongoing where-does-thisgo discussion. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 22:31, 10 October 2018 (UTC)" I do regret undoing his first 10 October revert, revert of revert was a bit bad of me. I will offer mitigating circumstance that I did initiate TALK after and that I was somewhat provoked by overly aggressive editing plus repeated posturing that his easy undo must be left and claims that his edits have consensus. I will continue the TALK over placement for a bit, but this all seems like a bit of excessive effort for small potatoes. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 23:43, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Markbassett
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Wickey
Indef-blocked for ban evasion via socking; master account Wickey-nl blocked six months. Sandstein 15:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Wickey
Discussion concerning WickeyStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by WickeyThis is a bad faith action for which requester should get a firm warning. I am not aware of any misdoing. I found the Noticeboard while looking who is the guy who is hounding me since 15 July 2018, without some clear explanation. As you can see, I have mainly been editing in the area of history, including Zionism. You may check the nature of them. In such an absurd broad interpretation you should also include all articles about Israel, Palestine, Judaism, Islam, Arabs, Arab countries en US and many history articles to censor. User:Wickey-nl is another user, who is not even active. Moreover, I do not have any intention to edit in an area which is terrorized by a pack of mad dogs.Wickey (talk) 13:59, 13 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by Icewhiz@AGK: I too have suspicions regarding wicky-nl. I alerted the user to the existence and applicability of the 500/30 restriction to their edits. See diff on their talk page.Icewhiz (talk) 13:12, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Wickey
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VanEman
Topic banned; 1 year. AGK ■ 14:02, 14 October 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning VanEman
I have noticed that this editor is prone to edit warring in other areas as well: June 2016 notification of my report on WP:3RR. In addition I find it especially worrying that he should violate the restriction just five minutes after I wrote him a nice and detailed paragraph about it on his talkpage.
Discussion concerning VanEmanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GovindaharihariThis report is totally meritless, users portraying the Jewish Voice for Peace as pro palestinian are to blame for those edits - our own page doesn't do that. Not long ago, just above here in a recent report Sandstein said, We should consider sanctioning Debresser for trying to use AE to further their position in what are clearly normal content disputes.Govindaharihari (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by IcewhizJVP is described in the source supporting the content as Statement by Bellezzasolo@Govindaharihari: there's clearly an I/P 1RR violation here (re-revert 9 minutes after reversion, not 24 hours). So the report isn't meritless. The whole reason we have that restriction is to prevent edit warring and move content disputes to the talk page. While I personally consider that section to be a bit confusing, which may factor into a final decision, the report of a 1RR violation certainly isn't frivolous. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 21:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000@AGK: The reverts 3 minutes apart that you indicate, namely this one at 17:03 and this one at 17:06, are consecutive edits without intervening edits by another user. Therefore they do not count as two separate reverts by our usual rules for counting reverts. Zerotalk 01:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC) As far as I can tell, this revert broke the "original author" rule according to one of the common interpretations of that rule. According to another common interpretation of that rule, VanEman didn't break it because he/she was not the original author (the same text having been in and out before due to other editors). Which interpretation is correct, I have no idea. However, I do have an idea about one thing: the usual penalty for an editor with a clean record who breaks a revert rule for the first time is something like 24 or 48 hours. It seems to me grossly excessive to consider a 1 year ban. Zerotalk 06:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Not clear if Shrike's alleged example of an older 1RR violation really is, since the second version is very different from the first, and finding a word in common doesn't make enough difference. Zerotalk 09:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by Shock Brigade Harvester BorisI usually try to stay well clear of Israel-Palestine stuff, but Zero0000 is correct. WP:1RR says The one-revert rule is analogous to the three-revert rule as described above, with the words "more than three reverts" replaced by "more than one revert". If we take WP:1RR as meaning just what it says, then the provision at WP:3RR stating A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert applies equally to WP:1RR. As a result, the two reverts three minutes apart count as a one, and do not constitute a technical violation of 1RR. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:32, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by GalobtterI agree with Zero and Shock Brigade; those two diffs cited by AGK are not violations because they are consecutive edits. However, the revert 9 minutes later cited by Debresser is a clear violation of "If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the first revert made to their edit." Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:48, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by Shrike
Statement by (username)Result concerning VanEman
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Enforcing administrator discussion – Debresser
Statement by AGK
I am raising this topic separately to request views from colleagues about the use of enforcement processes by Debresser.
- In #VanEman, immediately above, Debresser cited two diffs that were around 27 hours apart – and requested enforcement of a 1RR (one revert per 24 hours) general sanction. To be clear, I have recommended enforcement action in that case – but only as a result of different diffs of user conduct which I came across during a review of the request.
- In #Nableezy, above, a meritless request for enforcement was submitted.
- Nishidani, enforcement requested August 2018, was again closed without action.
I am concerned in general at an increasing use of AE for reprisal – and, in this case, at a scattergun or careless approach to enforcement requests. AGK ■ 21:37, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Debresser
- I would only like to say that in my point of view, both Nishidani and Nableezy have behavioral problems, and are moderately disruptive from time to time. The fact that this forum has decided that there were no grounds for action, does not mean that there were no grounds for my reports. Just like in real life, not all court cases end in convictions.
- I noticed that AGK is worried about "reprisal". May I remind you that it is me, who was reported here a week ago in a clear attempt at reprisal. I myself do not have such inclinations. In addition, please feel free to research the issue, and you shall see that there simply was nothing that could have provoked me to seek reprisal. Specifically regarding VanEman, I hadn't seen him in over a year, and even that was not in the IP-conflict area. Debresser (talk) 18:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Most, if not all, ArbCom restrictions, like ARBPIA, include a clause about proper behavior in the spirit of community editing, not to mention decorum. Most of my reports were not about straightforward violations (like my last report regarding VanEman, which was accepted). They were specifically about editors' behavior, as in long-time patterns: editors using derogatory language (Nishidani and Nableezy), editors being pushy and ignoring the opinions of other editors (Nableezy). And in all my reports there have been admins (and certainly non-admins) who have said that there is some truth about the issues I reported, just that it is not actionable. Please check that.
- So a warning about what? Not to report edits that are not actionable? How can an editor know beforehand what ArbCom will deem actionable or not? Especially since were are talking about discretionary actions.
- By ruling time and again that there were no violations, ArbCom has effectively decided to ignore Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3#Tendentious editing, which reads "Users who disrupt the editing of articles by engaging in sustained aggressive point-of-view editing and edit-warring may be banned from the affected articles". However, it would be completely unfair to propose to sanction the editor, who tries in good faith to uphold the rule that this forum has itself instituted. Debresser (talk) 06:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- There too, all commenting editors agreed that Huldra's edits were problematic, just that the closing editor decided it is a content issues, and not actionable at WP:ANI. How using misleading edit summaries is a content issue, I don't understand till this day. Debresser (talk) 06:15, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Kurtis
- I've reviewed Debresser's reports to AE over the past two years. Apart from the ones mentioned by AGK, there's also (in reverse chronological order): Nishidani (January 2018), El_C (June 2017), Nishidani again (May 2017), and finally Nishidani (October 2016). Of these, the only one that resulted in a sanction for the reported party was the 2017 AE submission concerning Nishidani, with Sandstein implementing a one-month topic ban from Israel/Palestine articles – and even then, several commenters felt that the diffs provided were not actionable. There does seem to be a pattern here, albeit a sporadic one. The question is, does it warrant a sanction at this time? Or would a final warning be sufficient? Kurtis (talk) 19:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Debresser: "How can an editor know beforehand what ArbCom will deem actionable or not?" – To tell you the honest truth, a lot of it just boils down to common sense. It's inevitable that some AE reports are going to end up as borderline cases, and the decision is usually determined by factoring in things like the editor's past history, the seriousness of the violation, whether they're making a good-faith effort to learn from their mistakes, etc. But there's also an expectation that the filing party will use good judgment in submitting a report. To give an example, in January of this year you reported Nishidani for violating a 1RR restriction. The two reverts you cited were, by your own description, over 24 hours apart. At the time, the two of you were engaged in a content dispute. Bringing the situation here made it look as though you were attempting to gain the upper hand. Whether you realize it or not, this is a common thread for many of the reports you've made to AE and ANI over the past few years.
Your idea of what constitutes a violation is much, much broader than that of most people. Going forward, I think it would be a good idea for you to avoid making any AE reports that aren't clear-cut cases (e.g. an editor makes multiple reverts to a 1RR article in a single day), as well as ones in which you're an involved party. I also recommend that you get into the habit of using other avenues for dispute resolution rather than escalating tensions by immediately pursuing sanctions against other editors. You'll probably find it a lot easier to get things done when you begin to think of them as collaborators rather than antagonists. Kurtis (talk) 09:26, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Debresser: "How can an editor know beforehand what ArbCom will deem actionable or not?" – To tell you the honest truth, a lot of it just boils down to common sense. It's inevitable that some AE reports are going to end up as borderline cases, and the decision is usually determined by factoring in things like the editor's past history, the seriousness of the violation, whether they're making a good-faith effort to learn from their mistakes, etc. But there's also an expectation that the filing party will use good judgment in submitting a report. To give an example, in January of this year you reported Nishidani for violating a 1RR restriction. The two reverts you cited were, by your own description, over 24 hours apart. At the time, the two of you were engaged in a content dispute. Bringing the situation here made it look as though you were attempting to gain the upper hand. Whether you realize it or not, this is a common thread for many of the reports you've made to AE and ANI over the past few years.
Statement by Huldra
- Just a note: Debresser doesn't only report editors to AE, he also reports you to AN, last time he reported me there was in July 2017. (It was closed without any sanction), Huldra (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Discussion among uninvolved admins
- Yes, we do see Debresser quite a lot here with, as far as I can recall, often non-actionable requests. I wouldn't object to a restriction against making new AE requests. Sandstein 11:40, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Whether it is retaliatory or not, there is a clear pattern of poor/inappropriate reports to this noticeboard. I would prefer a strong warning however, with a restriction on AE requests if the problem continues. WJBscribe (talk) 12:48, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Muffizainu
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Muffizainu
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- SlimVirgin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Muffizainu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Discretionary sanctions: "all pages related to, (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed".
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
I'm asking that Muffizainu be topic-banned from anything to do with female genital mutilation. On 14 October 2018 he created Khafd, an article about FGM named after an Arabic term for it. The Khafd page had been a redirect to Religious views on female genital mutilation. The new article is a poorly sourced POV fork of Female genital mutilation, a featured article. On 8 March 2018, I warned Muffizainu explicitly against creating a POV fork (diff), after he created Talk:Khafd; see his first version of that talk page.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
I alerted Muffizainu to the DS regarding FGM on 7 March 2018 (diff).
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
A major interest of Muffizainu's on Wikipedia is the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect living mainly in India that practises FGM. They are thought to practise Type I FGM, which involves cutting/removing the visible part of the clitoris and the clitoral hood. They perform it on girls around the age of 6–9, most of it done by traditioner circumcisers without medical training and using crude tools. There are no authoritative studies on the type and extent of the cutting among the Dawoodi Bohra, only anecdotal reports. See Dawoodi Bohra#Female genital mutilation (permalink). Also see Batha, Emma (5 February 2018). "'Heartwrenching' study shows FGM prevalent among India's Bohra sect". Reuters.
Muffizainu insists that the Dawoodi Bohra (and perhaps others) practise Type Ia FGM, which is removal of the clitoral hood only; that it is harmless; and that it should be called "female circumcision", not FGM. The WHO, UNICEF, and UNFPA defined FGM in 1997 as "all procedures involving partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". [27] There are four types, Types I–IV, and several sub-types. It is not known to what extent Type Ia FGM is actually practised, especially outside medical facilities; when non-medical people use crude tools to cut the clitoral hoods of children, there is imprecise cutting. Therefore, much of what purports to be Type Ia is actually Type Ib (cutting/removing the visible part of the clitoris). See WHO (2018): "Type 1: Often referred to as clitoridectomy, this is the partial or total removal of the clitoris (a small, sensitive and erectile part of the female genitals), and in very rare cases, only the prepuce (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoris)" (bold added).
- Examples of problems with the fork
The new article (permalink) is problematic in its entirety, so these are just examples:
- The premise of the article is that khafd consists of Type Ia FGM. But the WHO says Type Ia is performed only "in very rare cases". A 2008 USAID paper, "De-linking Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting from Islam", defines khafd (which they write as khifaadh) as female genital mutilation/cutting; see p. 3.
- Muffizainu has sourced a description of Type I FGM to a non-MEDRS source from 1863. "In male circumcision the foreskin covering the penis is removed, and in female circumcision the foreskin above the clitoris is circumcised or removed" is sourced to Lane, Edward William (1863). Arabic-English Lexicon. London: Willams & Norgate.
- What khafd consists of is sourced to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, but it doesn't clearly support the edit. It describes khafd as "excision". [28] Excision is the removal of the visible part of the clitoris and of the labia minora (WHO 2018). But Muffizainu summarized this as: "Although the classical Islamic texts aren't explicit in their description of the procedure, these texts limit the procedure of khafd to the prepuce only."
- Non-medical, non-English sources are used, e.g. al- ahuti, Mansur Ibn Yunus In Idris, (1983). Kashshaf al- Qina’ an Matn al- Iqtinaa. Beirut: Aalam al- Kutub. p. 80.
- One source is https://femalecircumcision.org/the-practice-of-female-circumcision/. I can't see who runs this site, which is registered in the Cayman Islands. [29]
- Other examples of problematic edits
- In July 2016 Muffizainu added to Khitan (circumcision) (the Arabic term for male circumcision): "Female circumcision is carried out on the prepuce, the foreskin over the clitoris. ... It ranges from a symbolic touch to a tiny excision." He also changed the heading "Female genital mutilation" to "Female Circumcision" (diff).
- His first edits to FGM were on 5 August 2017 (diff), when he created a new section called "Lack of evidence of complications or harm for Type 1a". Using sources such as Newsin.Asia, The Hindu, and Breitbart News, he wrote that Type 1a was harmless, "similar to ear piercing". He tried again in October 2017 (diff), where he changed that "[FGM] is praised in several hadith ... as noble but not required" to "Type 1a female circumcision is praised in several hadith ... as noble, sunnah (tradition), or waajib (mandatory)", sourced to islamonline.net.
- He removed from FGM (diff): "In 2007 the Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research in Cairo ruled that FGM had 'no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions'."
- Other similar edits to FGM followed: 10 October 2017; 4 March 2018; 6 March 2018; 6 March 2018; 28 August 2018.
- See almost the entirety of Talk:Female genital mutilation/Archive 16, where Muffizainu and Md iet, another Dawoodi Bohra editor, argued at length that FGM Type Ia is practised and should be called "female circumcision".
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- Length
I see that I'm about 300 words over the limit. I'd like to request permission to leave the extra words, given the complexity. SarahSV (talk) 23:53, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Winged Blades of Godric: WP:NONENG (part of WP:V) says: "English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when available and of equal quality and relevance." There is a vast English-language literature on FGM, so there's no need to use sources outside it. Using Arabic sources means we don't know whether they're primary or secondary, religious or secular, high or poor quality, mainstream or fringe, or exactly what they say. There have been several editors wanting to use Arabic texts to show that Islam requires FGM, either because they think that's a good thing or because they dislike Islam and want to associate it with this practice. SarahSV (talk) 17:00, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Muffizainu
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Muffizainu
Firstly, the page clear defines an Arabic term, namely khafd. I have mentioned this in the talk pages as well. In order to define a word, one must turn to Lexicons to show it’s usage throughout history. And that is exactly what i’ve done. This isn’t a medical article, neither does it claim to be, and the term “khafd” was used 100s of years prior to the coining of the term FGM. Wikipedia is full of articles describing Arabic and other language terms, including the male form of circumcision (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khitan_(circumcision), hence this article isn’t anything new. Neither does she explain how the article is “poorly sourced” when it has relied on sources such as Britanica and the Encyclopedia of Islam. I have never stated that Dawoodi Bohras practise FGM. Whereas, on the other hand Sarah based her statements on anecdotal non reliable sources. I have also brought to her attention that a case in Australia categorically stated that the practice is not “mutilation”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Female_genital_mutilation#NSW_Australia_case
Next, she says “What Khafd consists of is sourced to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, but it doesn't clearly support the edit. It describes Khafd as "excision". [28] Excision is the removal of the visible part of the clitoris and of the labia minora (WHO 2018).”
This is incorrect. It does support the edit, because that’s exactly what is written in the source. Here’s the text from that article: “minimal practice comprised excision of the prepuce of the clitoris”.
She has just focussed on the word “excision” and ignored what was written in the source, namely “excision of the prepuce” . Also, by simply focusing on the word “excision”, she has overreached the her definition by directly jumping to the WHO’s usage of the word “excision” when describing Type 2. It’s clear that the Encycopeadia is using the word “excision” in its normal usage to mean “the partial removal of an organ” and isn’t referring to the WHO’s terminology. This is confirmed because the source mentions the “prepuce” and not the Labia. It’s clear that she is over reaching her allegations by playing on words.
My changes “ as noble but not required" to “noble, sunnah (tradition), or waajib (mandatory)" is also factually correct. I already explained that in the summary, because the text that was being cited did not have the words “noble but not required”, and I inserted the actual words. Is there any harm in being factually correct on Wikipedia?
About the 2007 Azhar ruling. I have stated it many times, that that is just 1 ruling. If one were to be fair on Wikipedia, then they must also be able to post the multiple rulings in favour of female circumcision. Why is that not being allowed? In order to be neutral, both sides of the arguments must be presented.
Referring to my edits on the khitaan page. I provided reference from Arabic lexicons, that the word “khitaan” is used in Arabic, for both male and female circumcision. But even this was unacceptable to her.
Since she wants to rely on the “Encyclopaedia of Islam” article cited by me, the first sentence clearly states that Khitaan or Khafd are referred to as “circumcision”. So why doesn’t she cite that instead? Further, the term “female circumcision” is also used by the Encyclopedia of Britannica, when defining the word “Khafd”. https://www.britannica.com/topic/khafd The question arises as to, if a reputed source like Britanica can define the word, why can’t Wikipedia. It seems that Sarrah is only focused on her POV and is against any other academic dialogue on this subject.
I wouldn’t go to the extent of requesting a counter topic ban on Sarrah, however, I would request Wikipedia to monitor her extensive use of force and bullying to shutdown any academic dialogue on the subject.Muffizainu (talk) 06:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
ADDED: Here's an example of In between fair discussion, sudden inclusion of Topic ban seems giving a threat. When discussion is on Azhar university stand naming particular sect also looks like diverting the issue. All the stands taken by any one of Azhar to be taken care of and let the viewer decide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Female_genital_mutilation/Archive_16#Azhar_University_Disagreement https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Female_genital_mutilation&diff=806453049&oldid=806279917
Further, there are a few comments from Admins about gender issues and sexuality. The Muslims who practice female circumcision do it because they believe Islam encourages Gender equality, that is why both male and females circumsised. Further, it's not an issue about sexuality, because neither do the original Arabic texts state that it's do do anything with sexuality. If there is an avenue to discuss all this, I would be glad to contribute. However, every time it's even hinted, Sarrah comes in with threats. This isn't a conducive environment for any academic discussion, nor the values of Wikipedia.Muffizainu (talk) 14:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Kurtis
I strongly support a topic ban of Muffizainu from any and all pages relating to female genital mutilation, broadly construed. Sourcing issues aside, the absolute last thing we need is an article that gives even the slightest trace of legitimacy to this "procedure". Kurtis (talk) 04:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Statement by WBG
The sole problem with the report is that it has arrived over here, quite late.This pathetic edit ought be enough for a (POVpushing+CIR) Tban. Incidentally, Sarah, does there exist any active prohibition on using non-English high-quality sources, in the area, shall they exist?∯WBGconverse 13:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Result concerning Muffizainu
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The cn-tags alone (in the lead, for the very definition) are worth a topic ban. Basing one on the GamerGate, while perhaps a stretch, isn't crazy given the scope, depth, and importance of the GG case and decision. Drmies (talk) 04:28, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think it's a stretch and would recommend a DS topic ban. I see they have been given a DS alert for gender related issues. Doug Weller talk 05:08, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I understand SlimVirgin's concerns, but this looks like a content dispute to me. Arbitration and AE do not resolve content disputes. If the article is problematic from a content point of view, such as regards neutrality, accuracy, content forking, etc., then the way to correct this is consensus-building on the talk page or, if needed, an AfD. Content policies such as WP:NPOV do have a conduct aspect, but it normally takes a long history of problems or obvious, severe violations for them to rise to the level where AE action is needed, and I don't see this here. I'd therefore take no action. Sandstein 08:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I find Muffizainu's edits problematic, especially in terms of sourcing; however, I'm not sure that this is a "gender-related dispute or controversy". Salvio Let's talk about it! 10:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- On the procedural point, I think SV should be indulged on statement length - it is a clear statement of a somewhat complex problem. FGM is clearly a "gender-rated dispute or controversy" and I am surprised at the suggestion that it isn't. POV-pushing is a conduct issue and this appears to be an egregious example. To avoid rules lawyering about the scope of the restriction, I would support a topic ban from circumcision or female genital mutilation, broadly construed. WJBscribe (talk) 12:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- To me, FGM is more sexuality-related than gender-related. It's not a hill I intend to die on, since I agree that Muffizainu's edits are problematic, however. Salvio Let's talk about it! 13:44, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I support a topic ban from circumcision and from female genital mutilation, both broadly construed. WJBscribe, I've copied your wording, except that I say "and from" instead of "or", to make sure it's understood that the ban applies to both subjects. Finicking, probably. Bishonen | talk 17:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC).
- I agree that sufficient evidence was presented of biasing content, selective sourcing, and other serious misconduct. I am indefinitely topic-banning (under ARBGG DS) Muffizainu from content relating to circumcision or to female genital mutilation (FGM). AGK ■ 17:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Soibangla
No action. Salvio Let's talk about it! 13:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Soibangla
Discussion concerning SoibanglaStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SoibanglaI am beginning my statement now, but it is not yet complete, I will provide notice when it is Accusation: "Adds an excessive amount of non-neutral material to the lead of Donald Trump" It was one paragraph, three sentences, supported by three reliable sources. If there had been a consensus reached that the lede had been somehow "locked down," I was not aware of it. The added paragraph was certainly relevant to Trump's BLP, whereas the two subsequent paragraphs, which had evidently reached consensus before this apparent "lock down," are more suitable for the Trump presidency article, not his BLP. Accusation: "Poor referencing style (linking to a Tweet about a WSJ story)" The WSJ uses a paywall for most stories, so linking directly to WSJ will not allow users to check the ref. However, WSJ chooses to bypass their paywall when they tweet an article, so I linked to those WSJ tweets so users can access the whole thing. This is just the way WSJ chooses to make their content available, I am doing nothing devious. Accusation: "Adding suspicious denials to the lead section of George Soros while an RFC on the inclusion of that material was ongoing" There was nothing suspicious about it, nor was it a denial. Another user had unilaterally declared that consensus had been reached, made an edit reflecting that perceived consensus, and then I made a subsequent edit that complied with that perceived consensus. Accusation: "edits at QAnon, Hillary Clinton email controversy, and Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court nomination are all vaguely concerning, though I have no specific diffs to call out" "vaguely concerning" but "I have no specific diffs to call out"? What does that mean, exactly? I have contributed an enormous amount of high-quality edits to WP and I find the call for me to be topic banned from American Politics to be outrageously egregious. I will have more to say, pressed for time right now. soibangla (talk) 00:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by BullRangiferThis is an absurd filing. Lesser methods of DR should be used, and differences of opinion and complaints about a sourcing style don't belong here. Soibangla does much excellent work. I think you should reserve drastic measures like this for genuinely tendentious editors. Occasional mistakes are par for the course for any editor, even the best. We deal with them on the talk pages. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 02:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by MelanieNI am WP:INVOLVED in this situation. I was the one who removed Soibangla's full-paragraph addition to the lede in the Donald Trump article, and when I took it to the talk page, I said I thought that adding it without discussing it first was "highly inappropriate". In no way did I mean that to indicate any sort of violation of the DS. Soibangla made a bold edit, it was challenged, they have not restored it - where is the violation? I am hopeful that Power~enwiki will withdraw this referral, as is being suggested at the talk page. --MelanieN (talk) 01:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by DaveThis board should be a last resort not the first!, DR or ANI is thataway →. –Davey2010Talk 01:42, 15 October 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Soibangla
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