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Does Wikipedia have a left-leaning bias?

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I'm interested in knowing whether Wikipedia inadvertently has a particular bias. I know that everything has to written in a neutral point of view and is not supposed to take sides on anything. I found the article on this topic here, Ideological bias on Wikipedia, but I found the article too confusing. I'm assuming that many of the sources that Wikipedia cites, mostly mainstream media, seem to have a left-leaning bias which may contribute to its bias since almost all of Wikipedia's info comes from mainstream media. I am hoping that I can get a quick summary on whether Wikipedia has a bias or not or if it leans a certain way. I hope to hear from you soon. Interstellarity (talk) 22:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that theme has come up. Search for "bias" in the archive. 176.0.164.84 (talk) 01:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

There is an article on this topic which relates academic and public commentary. See Ideological bias on Wikipedia. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@Ceyockey, you perhaps didn't notice that @Interstellarity has already cited that article. ColinFine (talk) 13:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Interstellarity, bear in mind that political "left/centre/right" are subjective perceptions, unless everyone agrees to use a particular scheme that has measurable parameters. They are also culturally specific, and their meanings in one country rarely exactly correspond to their meanings in another: this makes assessing the 'lean' in a global encyclopaedia rather problematic. "Centres" also shift over time – see Overton window and Left–right political spectrum.

For example, as I am British and you are (I will presume) American, my perceived political "centre" will probably be a good deal leftward of your "centre". I would consider my position in a British context to be mildly left of centre on some (more social and environmental) issues and mildly right on other (more economic) issues: you would probably consider me fairly left-wing from your point of view, and I would probably (given your query) consider you fairly right wing. How then can we agree on "bias in Wikipedia"?

It may well be that the Left-right political spectrum model is oversimplified, outdated and inadequate. Others are available, see Political spectrum. Two axes models are generally more insightful, and I suspect one with three axes would be even better. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. I will confirm that I am an American. There doesn't appear to be any way to ping you, but I'm sure you watch this page a lot. I've been trying to educate myself on this issue and I read your comments. It appears that determining any type of bias on Wikipedia is difficult since the political systems in each country are different from one another. I was reading Donald Trump's article on Wikipedia and I thought to myself that the article is biased against him just by reading the article, but I have learned that Wikipedia gets its facts from the sources which is usually mainstream media that is critical of him. That's probably why I thought Wikipedia had a left-leaning bias. Interstellarity (talk) 22:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Paul Krugman has observed, "Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias." Maurice Magnus (talk) 00:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

For biography submission

 Courtesy link: Draft:Irfan Aslam

hi team,

Hope you are doing well. i need assistance to publish biography of pakistani Drama director irfan aslam. any one who can help me? Faizullah Anwar (talk) 17:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello Faiz. Try actually reading the feedback that the article reviewers are leaving you, as to why your article is getting ‘not allowed’. MM (Give me info.) ^(Victories) 17:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

they told me that this article do not have reliable sources. but there are 30+ links of Pakistan's top channels websites and that website shows his work with his name. can you please look into it. how to send you the link. Faizullah Anwar (talk) 17:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Faizullah Anwar, unreferenced promotional language like With a strong passion for storytelling and media and provided a solid foundation for his career is not permitted because that style of language violates the Neutral point of view, which is a core content policy. As for your references, quality is far more important than quantity. Significant coverage in independent, reliable sources is what is required. Passing mentions are of little value. Cullen328 (talk) 19:52, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

ok thank you so much i will change that words. Faizullah Anwar (talk) 22:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@Faizullah Anwar: Of all the sources you have used, which three best exemplify "significant coverage [of Irfan Aslam] in reliable sources"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:00, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes because there are some news paper Jang News cuttings. and there are lots of links of pakistan's top channels like Geo Entertainment, Hum TV, BOL Network and many others official websites. and these channel's websites are displaying his name as (Directed by Irfan Aslam). Faizullah Anwar (talk) 22:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The problem is not that the references are not reliable or not the "top channels", but the fact that the sources provide very few information about Irfan Aslam. Ca ^{talk to me!} 00:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Faizullah Anwar: Do you think those contain "Significant coverage" of your subject? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

i don't know. if these refferrences are not giving significant coverage of my subject then what to do? any solution. you are the seniors you all knows very well wikipedia policies. Faizullah Anwar (talk) 19:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Advice on how to install and use WP:MOSNUMscript

Earlier today I installed WP:MOSNUMscript, but couldn't get it to work. I followed the instructions, but evidently I must've done something wrong. Please keep in mind that my understanding of things tech is very limited. I would, therefore, appreciate a patient and clear explanation on how to properly install and use WP:MOSNUMscript. In case it helps to know this, my browser is Google Chrome. Thank you very kindly. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The issue appears to be down to a space appearing in the link instead of a _ character.

You had: importScript('User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates.js');

That should be:

importScript('User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM_dates.js');

I think if you replicate the steps and correct this, it should work. GhostOfNoMan 19:50, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually, thinking about it, I'm not sure it should make a difference... And the official install instructions do include a space, as well. Perhaps there's something else going wrong. Are you sure you don't see the MOSNUM options on the page once it's installed, as shown in this image? And did you try pressing Shift + F5 or Ctrl + F5 to clear Chrome's cache? GhostOfNoMan 19:55, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I tried Shift + F5 and Ctrl + Shift + R, but to no avail. The options neither showed up on the left as in the image nor in the dropdown tabs that appear for the 2017 wikitext editor. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@CurryTime7-24: Your code [1] was correct. The script only affects edit pages. Try it again and use Ctrl+F5 on [2]. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that worked! Thank you so much for your help!! :) —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Sorry to bother once more. A couple of new wrinkles turned up. First, I noticed that the successful result at the link you sent could not be replicated at this page I wanted to edit. I noticed that the addresses at each were slightly different, so I modified the latter to this and was successfully able to bring up the commands I wanted. However, now the problem is that clicking the commands does not result in the dates being changed. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, but can't figure it out. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 18:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@CurryTime7-24 For what it's worth, I also encountered issues attempting to use the script on Ōnosato Daiki. It took ~5 minutes for the preview to finally load, and when it did it contained formatting errors galore, with spaces apparently arbitrarily removed (e.g. on 1 January became on1January).

I was able to resolve this by turning off syntax highlighting (the pen symbol at the top of the editor, to the right of the text formatting options like bold and italics). Perhaps you can try disabling that and see if it helps you too? GhostOfNoMan 19:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply and want to add how appreciative I am for all the help here. In fact, I've never turned on the syntax highlighting. Just to be sure, however, I turned it on, then off again to see if this helped at all. No dice. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that's a shame. Sorry I couldn't be of more help; disabling syntax highlighting completely resolved it for me. :( I suppose it still doesn't work if you give it ~60 seconds, in case it's simply being slow? Does it work on any articles at all, or none? Do you have any browser extensions installed that could be interfering (e.g. an adblocker you could test disabling)? GhostOfNoMan 22:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@CurryTime7-24: Can you try in safemode to narrow down the problem? Many scripts don't run there, including your common.js where the script is loaded, so you have to run it in the Chrome DevTools Console. Press Ctrl+⇧ Shift+j, copy importScript('User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates.js'); to the blue ">" in the right pane, and press the enter key. If it still fails then try the same when you are logged out. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I tried this method, but both times could not access the script. I also received a message warning me against it.

As helpful as it would be to use this script, I think that at least for now it may be more trouble for me than it's worth. However, I again thank you for your time and patience with me. I'm also grateful to fellow editors at Teahouse for the courtesy with which they help people like me. :) —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

How do I see my edits on articles.

Hi! Ive recently been editing a few articles here and there but when I check my profile the only edit I can find is to my own 'talk page'. Are my edit contributions being reviewed before they are put in to effect (understandable as I'm a new user) or have I maybe not probably saved my edits and they have gone to the void? :( thanksss Gillian2002 (talk) 02:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

If you go to any page, there is a tab labeled "view history". This shows you all edits made to that page, who made them, and when. The "diff" link on each line shows you what changed.

You can also view your own contributions, by pulling down the drop-down menu from the little person icon at the top right (assuming you're on a desktop browser) and clicking "Contributions". This shows you all of your edits that you have ever made to any page. You can also view this by going to your own user page or talk page and pulling down the menu under "user", and select "contributions". ~Anachronist (talk) 02:04, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gillian2002: Welcome to the Teahouse. As far as I can tell, you've only made three edits on the English Wikipedia. Are you sure you weren't previously editing on the Simple English Wikipedia? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thank you very much, you were right I was previously on simple English wikipedia, that makes much more sense now! Gillian2002 (talk) 02:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Gillian2002, try this. -- Hoary (talk) 04:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Review of Content before Upload

Would just like to know if there is a place here in Wiki where I can show the content I have created, maybe have it critiqued or reviewed for possible policy violations, before I upload it. Will appreciate greatly the advice of the experienced editors or admins here. TMxAsclep (talk) 09:38, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

the best place is probably your own sandbox (just click this red link to create it). You can experiment there, provided that you don't add any copyright material and its not abusive or very obviously promotional, you can create a draft article. To get a critique you would have to request other users to have a look at it or you could submit it as a draft article for review. Best place to start is probably the article wizard. Regards  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   10:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the advice. TMxAsclep (talk) 11:32, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TMxAsclep, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not clear whether you are considering creating an article or adding material to existing articles; but if you are thinking of a new article: My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 10:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I am new here. Foremost, I look forward to creating new articles. Will take your advice. Thanks! TMxAsclep (talk) 11:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Strongly second the recommendation to learn Wikipedia's mysterious ways by putting in time improving existing articles before attempting creation. David notMD (talk) 12:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice! TMxAsclep (talk) 07:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism vs. Disruptive Editing

What is the difference between vandalism and disruptive editing? to me, it seems that they are the same thing, because many disruptive edits are listed as "vandalism" even if they may not be. 142.114.1.184 (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Vandalism is disruptive editing but not all disruptive editing is vandalism. It is possible to act in good faith and still be disruptive(like someone constantly, unintentionally misspelling a word requiring others to clean up after them). Vandalism is acting in bad faith. 331dot (talk) 18:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism is disruptive editing that's intentionally disruptive.

But some disruptive editing can be unintentional, and thus not vandalism. For example an editor might be unfamiliar with policies, like using reliable sources, and display little willingness to learn; or they might have poor English skills; or they might just lack competence (see WP:COMPETENCE). Sometimes an editor is making a genuine attempt to improve Wikipedia, but for one reason or another their contributions are disruptive—but they're not vandalism, even though penalties do exist for consistent disruptive editing even when it's in good faith. GhostOfNoMan 19:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, GhostOfNoMan. Please don't refer to "penalties". Blocks (in particular) are not penalties, they are a mechanism for preventing further damage to Wikipedia. See WP:Blocking policy#Purpose and goals. ColinFine (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Valid point – they're not meant to be punitive. I would have opted for "sanctions" instead, the language preferred by various policy pages (like WP:NOTPUNISHMENT), but the simple English definition of "to sanction" is still just the imposition of a penalty. Rephrasing to avoid these common English terms can feel like an exercise in prolixity, but I appreciate it's an important point to clarify for new and unfamiliar editors. GhostOfNoMan 20:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism is the destruction of Wikipedia's purpose (which is to provide encyclopedic content). Examples of vandalism include adding nonsense, inappropriate external links, promotional content, unexplained content removal, BLP violations and repeated addition of copyrighted material. Disruptive editing is the disruption of improving an article. Not all disruptive editing is vandalism, but all vandalism is disruptive. An example of disruptive editing is adding copyrighted content (one time only). But that's like the only example of disruptive editing that I can think of. See WP:Vandalism and WP:Disruptive editing for more information. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 12:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections

Hello!

Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections was declined by Wikipedia a few days ago, and I went ahead and cited pretty much everything. Hopefully this will be enough, but I have a couple of questions as well

• All of the items in the "collections lists" are established Wiki articles. I would love to make a reference to this page from those pages, but is this allowed when the referencing page is in draft?
• would it be helpful/useful to double-cite references?

Just interested if there is anything else I can do to make the page 'stick' this time.

Thanks! Gmecagni (talk) 19:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

On a quick look, there is little or nothing among the sources which meet the triple requirement of being reliable, independent, and having significant coverage of the subject of the article (see WP:42): if I am right, then you have not established that the archive meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability: unless you can establish this, no article is possible.

In the first sentence it describes it as an "internationally recognized repository", but that paragraph is cited only to a non-indepedent source, and so should not contain any such judgment.

Remember that Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. ColinFine (talk) 20:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni You ask about linking articles to drafts. That's not allowed, since a large proportion of drafts are in a poor state and many get abandoned when not accepted. Looking at your current draft, I don't think it will be accepted, for lack of sources meeting the golden rules, so you might be better in incorporating parts at Northeastern University#Library facilities. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome! Your draft is not bad, but it lacks reliable sources. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 12:37, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Chatting with other Wikipedians

I’m looking for a place on Wikipedia where I can chat with other Wikipedians about things that are not related to Wikipedia. Some websites have places where community members have a chatroom for things not specific to what the community is about, but wasn’t sure if something like this exists on or off Wikipedia. Interstellarity (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't believe any such place exists on Wikipedia itself (WP:NOTFORUM), but if you're comfortable with IRC there are social channels like #Wikipedia-coffeehouse and #Wikipedia-offtopic (and many, many more). Alternatively, Discord. GhostOfNoMan 19:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Interstellarity, please read WP:NOTSOCIALNETWORK. A little bit of chit-chat is permitted on user talk pages among editors who already know each other. There is no chatroom on Wikipedia itself. Cullen328 (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Interstellarity: You can find groups of Wikipedians chatting on most social forums - Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Mastodon, etc. There are also real-world meetups which often mix editing and technical support with social activities. You may find details on the talk page of the WikiProject about the country or place where you live; such as WT:WikiProject New York. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your information. I will definitely check it out. Interstellarity (talk) 23:15, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

how to do an edit

In Franz Kafka, under "Sources" is "Corngold, Stanley (2009). Franz Kafka: The Office Writings." Corngold is an editor, not an author, and is one of three editors; the other two are Jack Greenberg and Benno Wagner, which you can see by clicking on the review. I don't know how to edit the template to reflect this. Maurice Magnus (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Maurice Magnus. The template is Template:Cite book, which explains its arguments. But if you are unable to edit it yourself, Talk:Franz Kafka is the best place to discuss improving the article. (I see you have already posted there, on a different topic). ColinFine (talk) 20:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Maurice Magnus I always find this format of short citations that use the sfn template extremely confusing and not particularly helpful, TBH.

If you open the page in WP:Source Editor and scroll down to the "Sources" section, you'll see that a template is used which creates a list of sources. Each source within that uses the Cite Book template, plus a further 'template-within-a-template' ({{sfnRef}}) which controls how the shortened citation is displayed. The entry you're looking for currently contains the following text (albeit laid out one entry per line, rather than in continuous block form, as below):

* {{cite book : | last = Corngold : | first = Stanley : | title = Franz Kafka: The Office Writings : | year = 2009 : | publisher = Princeton University Press : | location = Princeton, New Jersey : | isbn = 978-0-691-12680-7 : | ref = {{sfnRef|Corngold et al.|2009}} : }} [https://www.fedbar.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bookreviewsoct09-pdf-1.pdf Review]

The sfnRef template is what is edited to create a short form citation. You could simply modify this to:

sfnRef|Corngold et al. (eds.) (2009).

...but you would, I think need to ensure that every single use of the original name was replaced with your new name.

But I suspect you will probably want to follow ColinFine's advice and fix the cite book template fields as well? If so, there are some worked (and sometimes quite lengthy) examples of how authors, editors and translators are dealt with in that template's documentation, and how you can control the way the number of multiple names are displayed.

You are evidently an experienced editor here, but I can understand your confusion in this example. It's taken me two hours this evening to attempt to resolve your query - mainly because I've little expereince of using this form of citation. However, I do think a really important issue is to first decide what citation you want to give, and who to credit as author(s) and who to credit as editors/translators. I'm not wholly convinced that the book review you mention necessarily uses the correct citation, as some sources list Kafka as the author whilst others list both Kafka and Corngold as authors (because the latter evidently wrote major commentaries and other content), with further people listed as editors, whilst some list only Corngold (see scirp.org/reference/referencespapers?referenceid=1137851). I really can't advise which is correct - I must leave you to investigate that - but even the article here about Franz Kafka: The Office Writings also looks like the citation could be better constructed.

So, amid the confusion, I went to World Cat entry for that book and clicked the 'Cite' button. It gave me this, as one of a number of citation layouts for the work:

Kafka, F. (2009). Franz Kafka : the office writings (S. Corngold, J. Greenberg, & B. Wagner, Eds.; E. Patton, Trans.). Princeton University Press.

I've added the relevant fields from the World Cat citation into our Cite book template to create a normal inline citation, like this:

References

If it looks to be fairly close, you could copy the source code from my reply and play around further with it in your sandbox to get perfect layout before inserting the template code back into the article itself. But bear in mind that crediting every single, and including their full first names too, does tend to make for a lengthy and often overly-complex citation. For that reason I used the "|display-editors=1|" parameter to force the use of "et al." in the reference that appears below. You could still include the translators name, but not even show it at all in the citation by inserting the parameter "|display-translators=0|"

I fear this reply has gone down a bit of a rabbit hole, but I hope it is at least of some further help. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

(talk). I appreciate your informing me that Wikipedia has an article on Franz Kafka: The Office Writings, and I've just wikilinked the mention of it in "Sources" in Franz Kafka. That article states, "The book includes introductory essays by Corngold and Wagner, as well as commentary following each of Kafka's texts, and an epilogue by Greenberg." Therefore, now that I've wikilinked Franz Kafka: The Office Writings, it is less important to straighten out Franz Kafka. Thank you for your work on my question, but I will do no more on it. I prefer editing for substance if I am familiar with a subject and copyediting any place that needs it. Maurice Magnus (talk) 00:20, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Calling editors to help improve the Black women in American politics article

Hello! I'm letting you all know that I suggested the Black women in American politics article for a Good Article Nomination.

It was removed with the following comment: "Nominations need someone familiar with the sourcing and content of an article so they can respond to reviewer concerns, so it's usually expected that the nominator is one of the main contributors to the article. Also, it still needs a lot of work before it can be a good article, as it suffers greatly from scope issues and needs more citations."

I don't know if the creator of the article is still active, but I want to encourage all interested editors to see what they can do to improve the article.User:ProfessorKaiFlaiProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 21:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@ProfessorKaiFlai To answer your question on whether the creator is still active, they appear to have been vanished, so they're no longer around to have anything to do with the article. If you look at the XTools analysis of the page though, you can see the current highest contributors; unfortunately, the highest contributor is retired, the second highest hasn't edited since 2011 and the third made a single edit - to that page - then never edited Wikipedia again.

It'd be great if people could set to improving the article to get it to GA, it'd be worth notifying Women in Red to see whether anyone there might be interested in helping. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 21:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks - will do!ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd actually recommend Women in Green if your goal is to get it to GA. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@ProfessorKaiFlai: The talk page of that aritcle lists (in a collapsed header box; use the "[show]" link there) a number of WikiProjects, where you can find editors with an interest in related subjects. You can ask on the talk pages of those projects - but I suggest you select one or two, not all of them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks - will do!ProfessorKaiFlai (talk) 14:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Redirect?

I came across this article, Communication Engine, in the Community portal for articles needing citations. While trying to find resources I came across this article, Internet Communications Engine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these are two separate articles explaining the same subject. I'm just not familiar enough with the subject matter to feel comfortable making that judgement on my own. Both articles need work but I think at the very least the shorter, less descriptive article should redirect to the more in depth one. If I get some consensus on this, would someone also be willing to help me with the redirect? I'm always happy to learn new skills to help out around here! Se7enNationArmy2024 (talk) 21:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe that they are separate subjects with CE being a general topic while ICE being a specific program. Therefore, there is no need for redirect (though CE needs significant work). ✶Quxyz✶ 22:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Reference for list of books from publication orginization

If I am writing a list of published books for a publication company, should I add references fom third party sites? 69.75.169.38 (talk) 21:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. It depends what you mean by "third party sites". If you mean sites that are selling those books, then no. If you mean independent reliable sources that have reviewed those books, then possibly. ColinFine (talk) 22:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@User:YisroelB501 / IP editor: You appear to be using at least one registered accounts and an anonymous IP address to edit Draft:Jewish Educational Media. Please stick to one user account only.

You appear to be attempting to promote or advertise this company, and you have been advised to declare any Conflict of Interest or WP:PAID editing you may have. Suspected undeclared paid editors are blocked to stop them abusing Wikipedia. You have been asked to declare whether or not you are connected with Jewish Educational Media, but you have failed to respond so far.

Please do not edit your draft any further without first addressing the concerns over your editing activities on your talk page. Failure to respond to that request could result in temporary or permanent withdrawal of editing privileges until you have addressed those reasonable requests. Sorry to have to put this so forcefully, but ignoring them is not an option if we suspect Undeclared Paid Editing. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Number 1 I am not in conection in any way with Jewish Educational Media I am not even above working age and didnt even graduate highschool yet.

Number 2 that IP is not mine or a second acount of mine. looking at it, it seems to be my school IP adress and perhaps it is people in my class (see vandalism that they did in User talk:69.75.169.38) helping me make the draft for Draft:Jewish Educational Media.

I am just a big fan of their work and I strongly belive their should be a wikipidia page about Jewish Educational Media. YisroelB501 (talk) 02:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Even if you don't have a conflict of interest, if I were an AfC reviewer I'd decline it on the spot for the non-neutral tone. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

You used that IP address in your first post in this section. Given that it may be shared, your best course of action is to always log in before editing, or commenting here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Your history of contributions suggests that the "publication organization" ("publisher"?) is Jewish Educational Media, a name that has frequently appeared on this page. (See e.g. "I just made my first wikipidia page draft".) Tips: (i) A book title shouldn't be in bold; it should be italicized. (ii) If an edition of a book has an ISBN (and the great majority of recently published books do), then the ISBN would be helpful (see Template:ISBN/doc); if it does not, then the number of an informative OCLC would be (see Template:OCLC/doc). -- Hoary (talk) 00:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Book titles may be italicised and bold, if the title redirects to the article concerned. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

too "one-sided"

I recived some comments saying my draft Draft:Jewish Educational Media is too "one sided" and "sounds like a commercail" I dont see at all how this can be one-sided it looks like any other wikipida article. can someone please tell me if they think this is one sided and how i can fix this and make it completly neutral. YisroelB501 (talk) 04:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

YisroelB501, none of the reviewers commenting on your draft has said that it is one-sided. However, heavily relying on affiliated sources results in content that violates the Neutral point of view. You have been told repeatedly that that what is needed are references to significant coverage in reliable sources that are fully independent of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. The quality of the sources are far more important than the quantity, so when you load a draft up with sources that are not independent and therefore do not establish notability, you create a major problem. You need to prove that the wider world has paid attention to this organization, not just the many media outlets that are part of Chabad-Lubavitch. Cullen328 (talk) 06:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I hear what you are saying but Jewish Educational Media is not part of the Chabad Lubavich movement. and also many other articles with things actualy from the Chabad Lubavuch movement rely on sorces from Chabad.org, and sites similar. See Merkos L'Inyonei Chinuch. But my original question was not about the sorces, it was if ithis draft is too one-sided. I was literly questioned by admins who thought I was making "promotional content" and i had to tell them I wasn't conected to Jem in any way. YisroelB501 (talk) 07:17, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

YisroelB501, let me give one glaring example of a neutrality problem with your draft. You linked to the article Rebbe which makes it clear that this term refers to a revered Hassidic leader. A rebbe is a tzadik and there are many of them who are recognized in the various Hassidic communities. As you know but most readers won't, Chabad-Lubavitich is just one of many established Hassidic dynasties, although perhaps the best known one to the general public. The Chabad-Lubavitch movement itself has had seven rebbes over the years, going back to Shneur Zalman of Liadi who died in 1812. When you write the Rebbe over and over again, that is not neutral writing because anyone who knows anything about Chabad-Lubavitch knows that you are referring to one specific man, Menachem Mendel Schneerson who died in 1994. So, you are trying to state in Wikipedia's neutral voice that Schneerson is the only person who deserves to be called "the Rebbe". I am not here to attack Chabad-Lubavitch or Schneerson. I know many people who have been positively influenced and I have attended quite a few of their events over the years, where I got a very friendly reception. But inserting their doctrine into Wikipedia as opposed to neutrally describing it is inappropriate and will never be accepted. Cullen328 (talk) 07:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

YisroelB501, as for your assertion that Jewish Educational Media is not part of the Chabad Lubavich movement, you can repeat that falsehood ten, or 100, or 1000 times, and no experienced editor familiar with the topic area will believe you, because you are wikilawering about organizational technicalities. Perhaps you are not aware but there was a Wikipedia article way back in 2007 that has been deleted but said at that time Jewish Educational Media also known by its acronym JEM, is the Multimedia arm of the Chabad-Lubavitch Movement. Anyone who actually reads the sources knows that you are trying to deceive the reviewers, and that is inappropriate behavior. Cullen328 (talk) 07:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

just because you contribute to an orginiazation does not mean that you are part of that orginization. Who cares about these editors you calim of the truth is that it is not in any way a part or an arm of the movement of Chabad Lubavich. you can also repeat falsehood 1 10 100 1000 times. how about you realize that Chabad is a trademark and there are certain orginizations that are part of that trademark (for example Kehot Friendship Circle (organization) Jewish Educational Media is not a trademark of Chabad. also look at the page Chabad affiliated organizations and you will see its not on there. Did they contribute a lot to the history of Chabad? yes. are they part of Chabad? NO. and i should not have to say that again. YisroelB501 (talk) 07:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:RSPS#Deseret News does not consider the precise nature of the relation between Deseret News and the LDS Church—only that they are closely affiliated nonetheless, and certain practices (whether that be caution, inline attribution, or avoidance altogether) should be followed. Experienced Wikipedians have in two discussions above advised to apply similar logic to this situation. OP, you ignore them at your own risk. As an aside, I see at Special:Permalink/1222689533 of "Chabad affiliated organizations", Jewish Educational Media (JEM) – JEM houses the movement's audio and video collection. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 08:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

First time drafter questions

Hi folks! I've been editing now for a couple of weeks and have found a notable event that does not have a wikipedia page; the murder of Connie Dabate, also known as the "fitbit murder" I have begun to draft the page but I am struggling with formatting the page and I am wondering if there are any resources that y'all could point me to to better learn how to utilize the article drafting/editing UI. Further, is there a method by which I could upload documents that are apart of the record of the case (notably the arrest warrant for the perpetrator) and made references to that document in the article?

I feel confident in my ability to write with the tone and specificity required for wikipedia's encyclopedic style and I have the necessary sources (at this time 10+ sources from news publications) I'm just not as savvy with the technical aspects of drafting the article. Thanks!

GB Gbrann100 (talk) 23:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gbrann100, where are you working on it? I don't see anything in your contribution history. It's easier to help out if we can see what you're up to (or we can just fix things and you can have a look at what we did and learn that way). -- asilvering (talk) 23:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I have been writing content in a word document, I will publish the working draft so that folks can help me, thank you for your prompt reply! Gbrann100 (talk) 23:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Rather than Word (or similar), you'd be better off using a text editor. -- Hoary (talk) 00:12, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Better to just draft straight on Wikipedia if you're learning, imo. -- asilvering (talk) 00:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gbrann100 You may not have noticed the welcome message on your talk page containing a link to Help:Introduction. Please work through the links to learn more about using one or other of our two editing tools. Most experienced editors here prefer the more powerful and controllable Source Editor. although many newcomers find the more basic Visual Editor easier to use for most simple tasks. Help:Introduction allows you to choose which editing tool to learn about. A quick browser search does suggest the topic is indeed notable, with a lot of newspapers covering the story, it would seem.

You will probably find it best to work on your article as a Draft, only submitting it for review once you've got it into fairly good shape. You can start work by following our New Article Wizard HERE, and you can learn more about working on your first article HERE. And I agree with Hoary in that using Word runs the risk of you copy/pasting your draft text along with bits of unwanted but invisible formatting code that Word uses. So, should you run into problems displaying anything on a page here, do consider that as the most likely cause of any issue. Good luck! Nick Moyes (talk) 00:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

thank you! Gbrann100 (talk) 17:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I will like to add that while drafting, you can make use of visual editing more and desktop settings will make things easier for you (especially when formatting, adding sources, adding templates etc).

You will still need source editing and I believe checking similar articles will guide you better. If you have specific questions too, you can ask. Tesleemah (talk) 05:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gbrann100 You refer to the idea of uploading documents that are part of the record of the case. That is absolutely not what you should be doing. All Wikipedia articles must be based on already-published sources, some of which may be offline. There should be no need for original documents like arrest warrants, since articles here need secondary sources in the main. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Gbrann100, and welcome to the Teahouse. At the risk of "piling on", I want to say that your reference to court documents suggests that, like many new editors who try to create an article, you may going about it the wrong way.

Your draft should not be based upon court documents, or any other primary sources. While a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be sourced to primary documents, the bulk of the article, and anything in the way of arguments or conclusions, must come from secondary sources. If a matter in a court document has not been discussed by an independent secondary source, it probably should not go into the article at all. ColinFine (talk) 11:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding an Organisation page or article

Hi, I want to know is it notable to create a page for an organization and its dynamics ownership of the organization and its rules, together with the nature of the business and trusted tips within the industry? Universal Phoenix (talk) 23:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Universal Phoenix you're looking for the guidelines at WP:NCORP. I don't recommend this task to a new editor - that's our strictest notability guideline. -- asilvering (talk) 23:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Universal Phoenix Welcome to the Teahouse. The answer is simple: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

This is an encyclopaedia of Notable Things. It's not a place to repeat what is on a company's website, or to act as a directory of useful tips. We have very strict criteria to determine whether a business is deemed 'notable' in Wikipedia's eyes. You can find this at WP:NCORP. Please read it carefully to ensure you understand that we need at least three, high quality and independent sources (such as books, mainstream newspapers) to have written about that company in detail and in depth. We don't care what the company says about itself, and we don't accept their website or publications as evidence of notability.

In addition, if you work for, or are paid by that company in any way, you are required to declare that connection. See WP:COI and WP:PAID to understand these obligations on editors with such conflicts of interest. I hope this helps. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Death notice as sources?

I'm a new editor working on adding sources. For some people (German mathematicians...) the only source on birth/death date & location I can find is an obituary/death notice of a form such as https://trauer-in-nrw.de/traueranzeige/uwe-storch or perhaps an announcement on a university website such as https://web.archive.org/web/20180128131305/http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/ffm/fakultaet/archiv.html (scroll to September). Are either of these acceptable? If both are, is one of these two types examples preferred in cases I can find both? Finally, if they have additional factual info beyond birth/death date (e.g., the university site confirms his habilitation year, and when he became emeritus), can that be taken from obits as well, or I should I stick to citing them for birth/death dates only? Thank you! AlgebraicBro (talk) 02:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

This is a very good question. Not for your situation specifically but generally: for obituaries, their reliability and what information they can support depends on who wrote it, who published it, and when. Wikipedia:Obituaries as sources, while an essay, walks you through the usual thought process; "How and why to use obituaries" on its talk page provides some additional tips (with the caveat that it is an opinion from 2023 of one editor}. I would consider announcements on university websites to not be independent, and thus the usual considerations apply there (WP:PRIMARY and perhaps even WP:BLPPRIMARY for the recently deceased). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@AlgebraicBro I somewhat disagree with User:Rotideypoc41352 and think that the best advice is at WT:Obituaries as sources#How and why to use obituaries. There is a big difference in using an obituary to establish notability (which is what the essay WP:NOBITS is mainly about) and using them in an article where notability is not at issue and you merely seek confirmation of dates and death location. For that, university websites announcing the death of a staff member is very likely correct and may be the only available published source soon after the death. So, while WP:PRIMARY, these sources may be used for uncontroversial information, much like WP:ABOUTSELF sources, IMO. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

If you're in the official discord server for something you are going to write an article about, does that subject become a close subject?

The subject in question is about the homebrew project WiiLink, by the way, I didn't work on the project, I just used it and was in their discord server, but I still want to ask just in case. Lucasfergui1024 (talk) 08:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

If you're asking if you have a conflict of interest merely because you participate in the official Discord server of a topic, probably not. You might if you discussed your Wikipedia editing with those who created/own the server and are making edits at their request. 331dot (talk) 09:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Lucasfergui1024 (talk) 09:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding reliable sources

Draft:Kanjanagaram Kathra Sundareswarar Temple

One editor noted the above mentioned article draft described it as lack of reliable sources and not written in an encyclopaedic format. How to find a source whether it is reliable or not? and how to find an article written in encyclopaedic format? பொதுஉதவி (talk) 09:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@பொதுஉதவி. The main problem is that your sources are not independent of Draft:Kanjanagaram Kathra Sundareswarar Temple. The decline notice contained a number of blue links to Wikipedia policies. Please click on those links and read those policies. If there is anything specific we can probably help you if you explain exactly what you don't understand about those policies. Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:45, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome! Your draft did not have reliable sources or inline citations, and has been declined. See referencing for beginners for more information. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 12:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Looking for feedback on draft...

Hoping someone could give me some quick fedback on this draft...Thanks in advance Geraldine Aino (talk) 11:10, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Geraldine Aino Blogs, patents, and Forbes do not contribute towards establishing notability. You have one good source which is the NYT. You will need to find at least two more reliable sources. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Remove mention of patents and of French. David notMD (talk) 11:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks David - curious about the patents...are they not proof of concept? I honestly do not know. 18:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC) 2601:589:4884:E1D0:1482:BB0D:DC46:26FF (talk) 18:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I am curious about the patents...are they not proof of concept? I honestly do not know. 18:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC) 2601:589:4884:E1D0:1482:BB0D:DC46:26FF (talk) 18:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. My recommendation, taking into account what others have said above, is to set aside the patents for the time being. You should, at this point in drafting, focus on sources that establish wikinotability; the patent could be used as a primary source, but only in limited circumstances. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Welcome! Your draft is pretty good, but it needs to have notability and reliable sources. See referencing for beginners and inline citations for more information. Electrou (formerly Susbush) (talk) 12:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion the draft goes from very general - concealed weapon clothing design - to very, very specific - French and his design patents. Better to keep it general, meaning deletion of all mention of French and his patents. Otherwise it comes across as promotional. David notMD (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Informations

Hi,can someone help me?I would like an entry to be created on English Wikipedia about this Italian guitarist, author and writer who wrote songs with people already there Bobby Solo,George Aaron and Gian Luigi Nespoli. I met him at an awards ceremony because he wrote a very beautiful soundtrack for a short film "The Fear of Winning" in Italian "La paura di vincere" at Ferrara Film Festival. This Is his link in Italian Wikipedia: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Zannetti I'm not able to do.... Thank you very much Cetin1979 (talk) 15:21, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello. New accounts cannot directly create articles, but you may use the Article Wizard to create and submit a draft. 331dot (talk) 15:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the answer, I will try to see if I would like to find direct help because I am not very skilled in these things.Thank you very much. Cetin1979 (talk) 15:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that someone with experience of en:WP, and able to read Italian (not me), would find enough material at that it:WP article to justify creating an article here. Maproom (talk) 15:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that's exactly what I would like. Thank you Cetin1979 (talk) 15:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

wikipedia fork?

hi can you please let me know what this acronym means: wikipedia fork ThanksPalisades1 (talk) 15:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Palisades1, see Fork (software development) for an explanation. But that's not an acrohym. Maproom (talk) 15:36, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Palisades1, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please see WP:Fork. ColinFine (talk) 15:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes after I posted the question I realised that it wasn't a acronym. The term was used as a reason for a revert of a reference. The source was New World Encyclopedia so I assume it does not exist in Wikipedia terminology. Sounds like an improper revert? Palisades1 (talk) 16:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

No, it was a proper revert. New World Encylopedia is a WP:FORK of Wikipedia, so it's not a reliable source. jlwoodwa (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

For context, here's the revert by Kuru. jlwoodwa (talk) 18:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the ping, Jlwoodwa. As noted, the cite is content that is copied from Wikipedia, then modified to suit the beliefs of a specific religious organization: "facts are integrated with global, universal, or cosmic values". This is not an 'improper revert', nor is the source acceptable. Sam Kuru (talk) 18:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Offer for "Wikipedia Management Services"

I received a reach out on Linkedin to create a wiki page about me, from someone who looks like they are monetising https://www.linkedin.com/in/nirmal-pundhir-5693b81b6/

I know people need to find ways to make money but It's not the spirit of the encyclopedia concept! Who can we alert to prevent this?

Thanks! Alexandragreenhill (talk) 15:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

It's not against policy to do that as long as they disclose that they are on Wikipedia(see WP:PAID). We can't prevent people from doing this. 331dot (talk) 15:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

331dot: wouldn't this possibly fall within the scope of WP:SCAM? — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 21:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

That depends on the content of the email. Merely offering paid editing services isn't a scam, unless they are making guarantees or promising it won't be deleted. 331dot (talk) 21:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I have a fair amount of experience dealing with the paid editing issue which is a major problem for Wikipedia. I will start by saying that there are a few ethical and honest paid editing firms that do things right, but their services tend to be quite expensive and most of their clients are corporations or wealthy individuals. The vast majority of these people are liars and scammers who do not comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and cannot and do not deliver on the ludicrous promises that they make. I cannot imagine an ethical company cold calling people by email. The very first question to ask such a person is What is your Wikipedia username? An genuine username reveals an enormous amount of information about an editor's history, including required WP:PAID disclosures, contributions, blocks, warnings, articles created and articles deleted, and so much more. It is trivially easy for any experienced editor to determine in a few minutes whether any given paid editor is honest or a scammer. Any paid editor who is unwilling to disclose their username should be considered a liar and a scammer. Do not let them get anywhere near your money. Cullen328 (talk) 08:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Is it possible to recover a non-free file that was deleted more than 1 year ago?

I noticed that Scania AB does not have a logo file, and it appears that an admin deleted that file under WP:F5 (unused non-free file) in September 2023. The reason it was unused was because someone did this, causing the infobox to query a non-existent file, and that caused the original file to become orphaned. The original file was at File:Scania Logo.svg.

I don't know how to obtain any file with original quality, so can anyone help me out here with recovering the original file? Tube·of·Light 17:12, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I think WP:DRV would be the right place to raise an issue with a file's deletion and request that it be restored. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

And to answer your question in the heading, the time since deletion doesn't matter – Wikipedia has kept all deleted pages for the last two decades (according to a footnote at Wikipedia:Viewing and restoring deleted pages). They're just removed from public view, not completely erased. jlwoodwa (talk) 17:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Jlwoodwa and Tube of Light: shouldn't it be WP:UND instead of DRV? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

You're right, it looks like the suitability of F5 at WP:RFU is implied by {{subst:UND|f5deferred}}. That should probably be documented elsewhere… jlwoodwa (talk) 17:58, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Tube of Light I don't see any need to undelete that file. There is a low resolution version available at the company's website (top right here). As a nonfree image, the logo will be automatically reduced in resolution, so there is no point in looking for a high-res version. A .png will suffice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull, @Jlwoodwa, and @Rotideypoc41352, thanks for your advice. I've decided to go with just uploading the logo file used on Scania's homepage (since it appears to be an SVG so is likely the best-quality file available publicly). Tube·of·Light 04:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Unreliable sources

Hi is there a listing of sources that are deemed unreliable? I know Find a Grave is not considered reliable. Thanks, Palisades1 (talk) 18:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Palisades1 Yes, that'd be WP:RSPS. These are the sources that have been talked about enough that consensus states either how reliable or unreliable they are. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 18:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much.Palisades1 (talk) 21:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

We don't have a list of unreliable sources per se, but we do have a list of commonly discussed sources and the consensus (or lack of one) regarding them as to their reliability. 331dot (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much.Palisades1 (talk) 21:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Palisades1 You can look at WP:RSPS for the main ones and its archives for some others not extensively discussed. There is a specific Help Desk at WP:RSN. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:04, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Palisades1 (talk) 21:21, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Doubtful draft

Hi, I'm currently writing this draft – Draft:Google's Year in Search. I have enough reliable sources however, I doubt that, the subject may not meet any given Wikipedia criteria. Is it true.? or I should keep writing that draft.? —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 20:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Perfectodefecto: Without seeing your sources, it's impossible to say. But if there is significant coverage of the topic in them, you should be OK. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:24, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright. Many Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 00:56, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Perfectodefecto There is a special version of Google search which looks for sources appropriate for use in Wikipedia articles. The hits in this case are ample to reach wikinotability if used in your draft. Good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Got them. Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 11:11, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Juan Conitzer (1949-2019) page

Good Day wikipedia Teahouse.

I want to write the article of my father. This October 17th is 15 Years of him passing away, yet in this time no one has written the article, surprisingly, since he was and still is very notable. (there is plenty of him in the internet and even there has been an expo in the 10th anniversary of his passing away (He was a painter and writer, son of Yolanda Bedregal) Of course if i do it, a rule will be broken since we are related, and closely . do i write it?/ please advise 169.252.4.23 (talk) 20:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor, and welcome to the Teahouse. You are not forbidden from writing an article about your father, but you would have a conflict of interest in doing so, and should follow the advice in that link.

However, writing an article is difficult for a new editor, even without a conflict of interest. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

One important point is that "notable" in Wikipedialand does not mean quite the same as "notable" in general parlance - the points you mention do not necessarily amount to Wikinotability, which is mostly about the existence of sufficient indepedent, reliably published material to base an article on. (For artists, there is an alternative set of criteria in NARTIST). So unless you can show that your father meets one of those two sets of criteria, no article will be possible. ColinFine (talk) 20:53, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

NB: The date of 2019 given by the OP appears to be a typo for 2009, confirmed by various google-hits.

Most of what I (in the UK) am seeing by websearching is in Spanish, which may help to explain the lack of an article in this English-language Wikipedia so far. Non-English sources are of course, perfectly acceptable here. More surprising that there is no article on the Spanish Wikipedia. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 22:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC).

Ref names/List-defined references?

Are refnames still a thing? I know they were introduced in 2009, but is there any push to get rid of them? Also, I know the LDR page has an automated way to change from LDR to regular refs, but I think that was last updated in the 2010s. Is there any newer way to automatically translate from LDR to regular refs? Artwhitemaster (talk) 20:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Artwhitemaster, named references are still widely used; indeed, they are still widely added. -- Hoary (talk) 23:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding subtitles

Hey, I added timed text to a video file and was wondering why it doesn't show up on the articles that use the file. Siimpae (talk) 21:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Siimpae: Try purging your cache. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

What category does this fall under?

I am sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I wanted to ask here before I went to the talk pages for potential articles or edit said articles. Recently, the same institute behind revival the formerly extinct Judean date palm through 2000-year-old seeds found in Herad the Great's palace in Masada grew another ancient seed into a never-before-seen tree. Is this an example of a de-extinction in the same way as their previous revived plant through germination of ancient seeds, or is this a Lazarus taxon in the same way as the coelacanth being rediscovered off the coast of South Africa after being presumed extinct for 66 million years?

Source: Mystery Tree Grown From 1,000-Year-Old Seed (msn.com) Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 22:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Edelgardvonhresvelg, I suggest that you ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants. -- Hoary (talk) 23:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Article Request

lin-14 is a nematode protein that has gained notable due to the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2024. Who will create it? Htmlzycq (talk) 23:40, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

If you add it to Wikipedia:Requested articles/Natural sciences/Biology § Proteins, ideally with a link to a reliable source, then someone might see it and decide to create the article. Emphasis on the "might", though. jlwoodwa (talk) 00:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Boghog (talk) 06:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Presidential election results?

I've never seen this resulting tabulation chart before: Rockport presidential election results. Especially on such a small town. It seems somewhat undue weight considering the size of the town and also the size of the article. Is there a particular purpose or reasoning behind including it? Curious. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 23:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@Maineartists: I haven't contributed to it but this search gives 3863 hits: hastemplate:"Infobox settlement" "presidential election results". PrimeHunter (talk) 00:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hm. Interesting. Obviously it's a "thing" here at WP. Wondering when it started and why. The section Government seems to be created in some instances only to house this tabulation chart and nothing else regarding government. Thanks, PrimeHunter, for running the search. Maineartists (talk) 02:00, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Need a second opinion? Is this user self-promoting/vandalism & can I go beyond 3RR?

Recently, I've been recent changes patrolling. I've come across a user and associated IP user who is entering the text "The Adventures of Piujus" into articles about Keith Chapman, often breaking templates and links [3] & replacing other (real) content [4].

Initially, I thought this was a real TV show (because I saw an barebones IMDb entry), just one that wasn't notable & we didn't have, so I reverted and left a comment on the talk page of the IP user. WHen they made their account and did the same, I thought because they were now logged in that they didn't see my previous revert and message, so I did they same again.

But the user kept editing their changes back in, alternating between using the account and using the IP address.

So I did some more research and found that it's the name of a small music artist across multiple social platforms.

The only mentions of it as a TV show are on (a very barebones with only the name of the show, not like what a professional studio would make) IMDb and Fandom, both crowdsourced websites where anyone can add content. The fandom claims that "It is a Television Program produced by Hasbro and SLU" but neither of these companies have ever mentioned anything about it and I cannot find any other references to it.

Is it safe to assume that this user is a vandal who is inserting this text to promote their music and I can go beyond WP:3RR to remove their mentions? Or is this a genuine content dispute and I should not WP:EW?

I've never seen a vandal go to this length to create fake info pages on other websites and am worried that they are a genuine under.

Thanks! MolecularPilot 01:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@MolecularPilot I agree that the edits the IP and User:Mikecrack Oficial XX are making are not backed up by the sources in the article and your analysis seems correct. Neither editor has attempted to justify their edits on the Talk Page of the article, which is the correct venue after your revert. The IP has edited today and if their disruption continues, please take the issue up at WP:AIV. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Solo_leveling_:_Unlimited

I keep failing, but I don't know why

I'm going to post an introduction to the game

I also posted a link to the news

Bebesup (talk) 03:24, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bebesup: Welcome to the Teahouse. It looks like the reviewers are saying that what you've posted in your draft so far doesn't demonstrate enough wikinotability to warrant an article. You're going to want to cite more secondary sources to establish said wikinotability. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

How can i publish the page

I published the page about Kitanorider but did not meet the standard need to know how can i edit it and make it meet the standard Emmanue Kitano (talk) 08:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

You seem to have a connection to this topic, please read conflict of interest and paid editing; note that "paid editing" includes any paid relationship such as employment. 331dot (talk) 08:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

All content needs to be varified by references. David notMD (talk) 09:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Emmanue Kitano Judging by your username and the name of the founder of the company, you are trying to use Wikipedia to promote your own business. As that linked policy page says, that is against the purpose of Wikipedia. We only have articles on notable companies and these articles are based, in the main, on what people with no connection to the company have said in reliable published sources. I suggest you abandon your efforts here as you are unlikely to succeed, Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:39, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi Emmanue Kitano. I've just come across your edits to other articles, and think you are using AI to generate content. Please don't do this. See WP:AI. Tacyarg (talk) 11:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

And all those edits to other articles have been reverted for lack of references. David notMD (talk) 14:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

New To wiki can someone help me get this article up to scratch?

New To wiki can someone help me get this article draft up to scratch? also i dont understand the copyright of the schools logo or how to upload it is it possable for someone to show me how thanks Draft:Timboon P-12 ABCthree (talk) 11:02, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@ABCthree Teahouse hosts will help new editors with the technicalities of drafting new articles but will rarely get involved in writing substantial parts. It can be quite difficult when writing about schools to reach our notability threshold. See WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. As to the logo, it would probably be WP:NONFREE content, which is not allowed in draft articles and won't affect the review/acceptance. Logos can be added when the article reaches mainspace. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:27, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, ABCthree, and welcome to the Teahouse. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

The problem with not doing this is (as you've discovered) that you probably won't understand the feedback you are getting, and will likely spend a lot of effort that does not help your intention. ColinFine (talk) 14:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Is this OR?

I am not sure if this is the right place, but I was searching old Teahouse archives looking for something similar to my case, and someone mentioned state documents are OR. I had wished to improve an article regarding Russian far-right and use document published in state.gov [5]. So: Is this OR? Thank you.RKT7789 (talk) 13:32, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

That would be (either) a Primary Source or Secondary Source depending on interpretation / context of use. Some would request having additional sources reviewing / contextualising that article is required for a true Secondary Source. For me, as it is already interpreting sources and producing some output it is Secondary. Not sure why it would be Original Research (which is where a wikipedia user makes statements or infers reasoning etc not explicit in the original document) so are you mistaking something? Koncorde (talk) 13:51, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay, good, I might have gotten terms mixed up then. Thanks for a quick reply.RKT7789 (talk) 14:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I cant find ANYONE

Can somebody show me to help find my sandbox draft back and to find out why I can't publish it?

Thank you. Notharry (talk) 14:50, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi Notharry. I've undeleted the draft. It's at Draft:David Coulton. It looks like the last stated reason for declining publication was the need for more reliable sources. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:54, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Notability question from a new article creator (article: Jeremy Holm)

I recently decided to create my first article on Wikipedia for stage and screen actor Jeremy Holm, as I kept seeing him pop up in TV shows and movies that I was watching. I researched him and found that he had performed in over 100 stage plays, and has been a regular at many of the world's biggest film festivals. I spent a long time nailing down all of my research and learning how to properly link to references. Unfortunately, the page was rejected almost immediately, claiming he was not notable enough.

I would just like to better understand how notable someone has to be in order to secure a Wikipedia page. I think of this actor as very notable. I wanted to make a page for him because he popped up in five movies I watched in the last week alone.

When i look up contemporaries of his, many of them have Wikipedia pages - and a great many of these people have appeared in far less than Mr. Holm. I fail to understand how someone like Hal Havins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Havins) or Lynn McRee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_McRee) have pages that features virtually nothing of note on them, but Mr. Holm, who has hundreds of credits - many in high-profile works - does not.

Can someone kindly explain to me how these decisions are made, as they seem very arbitrary?

And is there any way that the article I created might ever be approved? I worked very hard on it and felt like it checked off every single box for a properly-created, notable article - and feel very disillusioned that it was so quickly declined. Thank you. HorrorGuru79 (talk) 15:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Comment: I declined the draft because Holm didn't seem to have notable coverage in reliable sources or meet WP:NACTOR. I'm even going to go ahead and say that neither Lynn McRee or Hal Havins are notable, but oh well. Courtesy link Draft:Jeremy Holm. It was also my second-ever day reviewing AfCs, so I may have messed up, and in that case resubmit it for a second opinion. :) SirMemeGod  15:28, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, HorrorGuru79, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid your experience is typical for people who plunge into the challenging task of creating a new article before having spent significant time learning how Wikipedia works. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft.

The fundamental problem with your draft is the quality of the sources. Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. . Most of your sources are not independent: they are either from people or organisations connected with Holm, or are clearly repeating his own words. Notability in Wikipedia terms is not much about what the subject has done, said, or created: it is mostly about whether there is sufficient independent reliably published material about them to base an article on.

As for the other articles you mention: Wikipedia has thousands and thousands of seriously substandard articles, which would not be accepted if they were submitted for review today. Not many of our thousands of volunteers seem willing to spend much time going over these, improving or deleting them. (See Other stuff exists). ColinFine (talk) 15:39, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

possible copyright violation or maybe content copied from WP

A random Task Center task led me to try to improve an article about a notable statistician, Kanti Mardia, with an inactive talk page. Here's a 2023 version from before I started working on it (a few other editors have made changes in between, but only ref work). I found a possible citation for some of the unsourced claims on Mardia's WP page -- a somewhat hagiographic NRI Today article that says "last updated Jun 30, 2024" -- and I used it a couple of times as a citation for WP claims that had been unsourced. But then I realized that a lot of the contents of the NRI Today article and the preexisting version of Mardia's WP page were similar, with some identical text.

The relative dates on the two made me think that the NRI Today article was based on and partially copied from Mardia's WP page; that meant that the NRI Today article wasn't a reliable source, so I removed it as a citation.

However, "last updated" suggests that there could have been an earlier version of the NRI Today article, and if so, parts of the WP article might have been copied from that. I did a date-limited internet search and checked the Internet Archive, but neither confirmed that there had ever been an earlier version of the NRI Today article.

Since I'm raising copyright issues, I'll also note that a couple of times, as I've tried to improve articles, I've been convinced that (part of) a sentence was copied from a copyrighted source. Both times, I altered the WP text so there was no longer a copyright violation, but didn't do anything beyond that.

My questions:

• Is it sufficient to have made my best guess that NRI Today copied from WP rather than vice versa, or do I need to report it for more official assessment?
• If I'm correct that NRI Today did the copying, should I note that somewhere (e.g., on the talk page)?
• When I encounter a copyright violation for a small amount of text (e.g., a sentence or part of a sentence), is it sufficient to rewrite the WP text, or do I also need to report it?

Thanks! FactOrOpinion (talk) 17:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Citing liner notes

Hi! For the past week or so I've been editing the article on Selected Ambient Works Volume II to include information about its recent Expanded Edition and improve other parts of the article. As part of that new Expanded Edition, it came with a brand new set of liner notes with a bunch of new credits. For reference, the album originally came out in 1994 and this new edition came out in 2024. I feel like some of the info from the new set of notes should be put in the Personnel section but I'm unsure of how to include them; should the barebones 1994 ones be removed? Should I add a section within the personnel section to differentiate the two? I genuinely don't know where to go from here. I would also like to note the article's Talk section seems inactive as I've asked a few questions there, which is why I've came here. Thank you for any advice you can give! Beachweak (talk) 18:42, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

How to turn Dark mode off?

I am currently using mobile phone while on wikipedia, and I dont know what happend. It seems that i've accidentally tapped on something the caused wikipedia to go into dark mode. How do I turn it off? note, my phone is a Samsung S23 and I'm viewing wikipedia online not through the app. 142.114.1.184 (talk) 19:37, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Does Special:MobileOptions give you the option to turn it off? From someone accessing Wikipedia through a web browser on my mobile device, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:03, 10 October 2024 (UTC)