Talk:Ahir

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Ahirs as Yadavs was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 January 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Ahir. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2024

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In Madhya Pradesh and Khandesh numerous legends of abhir rule are popular among village folk. These living folk-tales and stories about ancient Abhira warriors, along with the various ahir dialects are proof of the heyday of the Abhiras.[1] 157.39.31.102 (talk) 18:06, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 05:14, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 August 2024

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Remove the sentence "Ahirs adopted the Yadav name in the 19th century." Sources do not support such claims, and it is not accurate. "The British census in 1881 mentions Yadavs as Ahirs."[2] 2409:4085:9CB9:3BE3:0:0:8109:D413 (talk) 17:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I don't see the sentence "Ahirs adopted the Yadav name in the 19th century." in the article – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 14:18, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Macaddct1984, Remove the sentence "since late 19th century to early 20th century, Ahirs have adopted Yadav word for their community". The source I have given above is from 1881, in which it is clearly mentioned that Yadavas were identified with Ahirs. 2409:4085:8686:F19C:0:0:AF0:98A5 (talk) 14:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: I don't see how your source refutes the claim of the article. I imagine the adoption of the word wasn't instant and widespread, and regardless, your source is from a British census, which has its own issues – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 17:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Macaddct1984. This is official document of that time. even official document of British raj are accepted by government of India and supreme court of India. There are many other reliable sources which refute the Sanskritisation of Ahirs. please see these sources^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6]. Ahirs were always Yadavs. Ahir and Yadav are two names of the same community. 2409:4085:8686:F19C:0:0:AF0:98A5 (talk) 21:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Soni, Lok Nath (2000). The Cattle and the Stick: An Ethnographic Profile of the Raut of Chhattisgarh. Anthropological Survey of India, Government of India, Ministry of Tourism and Culture, Department of Culture. p. 11. ISBN 978-81-85579-57-3. Yadav is a synonym to Ahir.
^ Rao, M. S. A. (1987). Social Movements and Social Transformation: A Study of Two Backward Classes Movements in India. Manohar. pp. 124, 127. ISBN 978-0-8364-2133-0. Besides this mythical origin of the Yadavas, semi-historical and historical evidence exists for equating the Ahirs with the Yadavas. ... In the Mahabharata, Abhir, Gopa, Gopal and Yadavas are all synonyms.
^ Guha (2006), p. 47:P. M. Chandorkar, using both literary and epigraphic sources has argued that the modern Ahirs and Gavlis - until recently cattle-keepers - should be identified with the Yadavas and Abhiras of the classical Sanskrit texts. He also notes that Khandesh, on the margin of the central Indian forests, was earlier known as the land of the Ahirs, and the local Marathi dialect continued to be called Ahirani.
^ Padmaja, T. (2002). Temples of Kr̥ṣṇa in South India: History, Art, and Traditions in Tamilnāḍu. Abhinav Publications. pp. 30, 35. ISBN 978-81-7017-398-4. Tradition says that the Ahirs in the Pandya country came to Tamilakam along with the ancestors of the Pandyas (KLT, verse 104: 4-6). Potiya mountain region was known as Ay-kudi. The capital of that region is also called Ay-kudi. In his commentary on the prefatory sutra to the Tolkappiyam, Nacchinarkiniyar describes a tradition relating to the migration of the Yadava race as follows: The sage Agastya repaired to Dwaraka and taking with him 18 kings of the line of Krsna, 18 families of Véls or Vélirs and others, moved to the South with the Aruvalar tribes. There, he had the forests cleared and built up kingdoms settling therein all the people he had brought with him. ...M. Raghava Iyengar held that the popularity of the worship of Krsna in the ancient Tamilakam might be partly due to the influence of the Vélirs who are often referred to in the Sangam works. He has clearly shown that the Velirs referred to in the Sangam works belonged to the 18 Kudi-vélirs of the descendants of the Yadu-kula to which Krsna also belonged, and that the Velirs migrated from Dwarapati, and settled in different parts of South India." The Ay-Vélir kings of later period also mention in their copper plate charters that they belonged to the Yadu-kula of Krsna. ...The Ay kings continued to cherish their association with Yadu-kula and Krsna in the later times also as seen in their copper plate grants and inscriptions.
^ Ancient Nepal (in Nepali). The Department. 2009. p. 32. This inscription also describes about a gateway of Kailashkuta palace named as Yadu-dvāra, from where there was the starting end of the main road Maharathyam stambhita sila...rathya mulasya yaddu-dvāram, Dhanavajra, 1973, 566). Thus this Yaddu-dvara (the gate named after the Yaduvamsi i.e. prove the occupation of the kailashkuta by the Gupta-abhiras). It is to be remembered that Gishnugupta and Vishnugupta lived within the Kailashkuta palace between A.D. 626-641, a period of sixteen years.
^ Enthoven, Reginald Edward (1990). The Tribes and Castes of Bombay. Asian Educational Services. p. 25. ISBN 978-81-206-0630-2. Chudásama prince styled Graharipu and ruling at Vanthali near Junagadh is described in the Dyáshraya-Kávya of Hemachandra as an Abhira and a Yádava. In their bardic traditions as well as in popular stories, the Chudásamas are still called Aheraránás. ... Again, many ancient remains in the Khándesh district are popularly believed to belong to the period of the Gauli Ráj. From the Archæological point of view, they are to be ascribed to the time of the Yádavas of Devagiri. It is, therefore, not unlikely that, according to popular belief, these Yádavas were Abhiras. This receives some support from the fact that Yaduvanshis even now are one of the most important sub-divisions of the Ahirs.

[1] Soni, Lok Nath (2000). The Cattle and the Stick: An Ethnographic Profile of the Raut of Chhattisgarh. Anthropological Survey of India, Government of India, Ministry of Tourism and Culture, Department of Culture. p. 11. ISBN 978-81-85579-57-3. Yadav is a synonym to Ahir.

[2] Rao, M. S. A. (1987). Social Movements and Social Transformation: A Study of Two Backward Classes Movements in India. Manohar. pp. 124, 127. ISBN 978-0-8364-2133-0. Besides this mythical origin of the Yadavas, semi-historical and historical evidence exists for equating the Ahirs with the Yadavas. ... In the Mahabharata, Abhir, Gopa, Gopal and Yadavas are all synonyms.

[FOOTNOTEGuha200647-3] Guha (2006), p. 47:P. M. Chandorkar, using both literary and epigraphic sources has argued that the modern Ahirs and Gavlis - until recently cattle-keepers - should be identified with the Yadavas and Abhiras of the classical Sanskrit texts. He also notes that Khandesh, on the margin of the central Indian forests, was earlier known as the land of the Ahirs, and the local Marathi dialect continued to be called Ahirani.

[4] Padmaja, T. (2002). Temples of Kr̥ṣṇa in South India: History, Art, and Traditions in Tamilnāḍu. Abhinav Publications. pp. 30, 35. ISBN 978-81-7017-398-4. Tradition says that the Ahirs in the Pandya country came to Tamilakam along with the ancestors of the Pandyas (KLT, verse 104: 4-6). Potiya mountain region was known as Ay-kudi. The capital of that region is also called Ay-kudi. In his commentary on the prefatory sutra to the Tolkappiyam, Nacchinarkiniyar describes a tradition relating to the migration of the Yadava race as follows: The sage Agastya repaired to Dwaraka and taking with him 18 kings of the line of Krsna, 18 families of Véls or Vélirs and others, moved to the South with the Aruvalar tribes. There, he had the forests cleared and built up kingdoms settling therein all the people he had brought with him. ...M. Raghava Iyengar held that the popularity of the worship of Krsna in the ancient Tamilakam might be partly due to the influence of the Vélirs who are often referred to in the Sangam works. He has clearly shown that the Velirs referred to in the Sangam works belonged to the 18 Kudi-vélirs of the descendants of the Yadu-kula to which Krsna also belonged, and that the Velirs migrated from Dwarapati, and settled in different parts of South India." The Ay-Vélir kings of later period also mention in their copper plate charters that they belonged to the Yadu-kula of Krsna. ...The Ay kings continued to cherish their association with Yadu-kula and Krsna in the later times also as seen in their copper plate grants and inscriptions.

[5] Ancient Nepal (in Nepali). The Department. 2009. p. 32. This inscription also describes about a gateway of Kailashkuta palace named as Yadu-dvāra, from where there was the starting end of the main road Maharathyam stambhita sila...rathya mulasya yaddu-dvāram, Dhanavajra, 1973, 566). Thus this Yaddu-dvara (the gate named after the Yaduvamsi i.e. prove the occupation of the kailashkuta by the Gupta-abhiras). It is to be remembered that Gishnugupta and Vishnugupta lived within the Kailashkuta palace between A.D. 626-641, a period of sixteen years.

[6] Enthoven, Reginald Edward (1990). The Tribes and Castes of Bombay. Asian Educational Services. p. 25. ISBN 978-81-206-0630-2. Chudásama prince styled Graharipu and ruling at Vanthali near Junagadh is described in the Dyáshraya-Kávya of Hemachandra as an Abhira and a Yádava. In their bardic traditions as well as in popular stories, the Chudásamas are still called Aheraránás. ... Again, many ancient remains in the Khándesh district are popularly believed to belong to the period of the Gauli Ráj. From the Archæological point of view, they are to be ascribed to the time of the Yádavas of Devagiri. It is, therefore, not unlikely that, according to popular belief, these Yádavas were Abhiras. This receives some support from the fact that Yaduvanshis even now are one of the most important sub-divisions of the Ahirs.

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